Getting the Record Straight Shoeless Joe Jackson Military service

[Nashvol]

Mark, yes, I assume so. I should have said that, sorry.

Skip

[jerseygary]

I've refrained from saying much on this thread besides to question the SABR "proof" and the whole military career of Jackson. But now after the ear thing, the Fleetwood Walker near miss and an even bigger mis-cue I gotta write something...

That Joe Jackson broadside is a a travesty! Not only does it have the computer quotation marks, but one of the typefaces used is Futura, which was not even cut until Jackson was comfortably retired! (first used in Germany from 1928 or so but not used in the US - let alone a small Southern letterpress printer - until the mid-late 1930's.

I do feature writing for a sports memorabilia auction house and because I am a graphic artist as well, I have been able to put the breaks on a few fakes by knowing my typeface and design history. Luckily many forgers don't know that stuff. In the two years I've worked for this AH, the owner has never hesitated to pull something that I found questionable.

[Lordstan]

I have to say, that even though the OP still doesn't believe us and thinks it's Jackson, this has been an incredible thread. It clearly shows the depth and breadth of knowledge on this board.
To me, the benefit of these type threads, beside removing or at least correctly identifying items, is the education I get from the many skilled people on the board. Learning how the experts do research is so interesting. For instance, I would've never thought of the history of typeface to be a key to spotting a fake. Now that I think about it, it obviously should be, but I don't think I ever considered it before. Just amazing.
I want thank all of you for being part of the board and hope you all continue for years to come.

[bmarlowe1]

The OP has posted a series of misidentified items on net54 in recent weeks. I think we should know his name.

Leon - what do you think?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

The OP has posted a series of misidentified items on net54 in recent weeks. I think we should know his name.

Leon - what do you think?

I think I agree with you Mark....his name is

Mich.ael Calv.ello


.

[yanks12025]

Looks like he ain't posting anymore. Hopefully it stays that way.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I have to say, that even though the OP still doesn't believe us and thinks it's Jackson,

That's what he says, but do you really believe it? Given that he also consigned the Amos Russie and the Fleetwood Walker?

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

That's what he says, but do you really believe it? Given that he also consigned the Amos Russie and the Fleetwood Walker?

Perhaps you're right.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Perhaps you're right.

It's a tough call. It could be that every time he sees an old photo, he 'sees' someone famous in it, because of extreme wishful thinking, then sends it to an auction house to make his fortune. I would probably believe this, except for the writing on the back of the Rusie piece. Still, perhaps he bought it that way from someone who knew he was a sucker for such items.

[earlywynnfan]

So all your talk made a nice Hauls of Shame article, I see!

[TimCarrollArt]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I have to say, that even though the OP still doesn't believe us and thinks it's Jackson, this has been an incredible thread. It clearly shows the depth and breadth of knowledge on this board.
To me, the benefit of these type threads, beside removing or at least correctly identifying items, is the education I get from the many skilled people on the board. Learning how the experts do research is so interesting. For instance, I would've never thought of the history of typeface to be a key to spotting a fake. Now that I think about it, it obviously should be, but I don't think I ever considered it before. Just amazing.
I want thank all of you for being part of the board and hope you all continue for years to come.

THIS. I continue to be blown away. Thanks to all for the education at Net54 University.

Tim

[blackbetsy]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

That Joe Jackson broadside is a a travesty! Not only does it have the computer quotation marks, but one of the typefaces used is Futura, which was not even cut until Jackson was comfortably retired! (first used in Germany from 1928 or so but not used in the US - let alone a small Southern letterpress printer - until the mid-late 1930's.

When I first saw this about 15 to 20 years back, I thought it might be legitimate, then I started researching drug stores named Devine / Devine's. I found one drug store in South Dakota from Joe's outlaw ball days, but that town did not have a Crosley Field. Of course, I thought of the Cincinnati field right off the bat, but never found a Divine's drug store in Cincinnati (I am fairly certainly, MLB and Landis would not have allowed Jackson to play at Crosley in Cincinnati, so I pretty much ruled that out from the get go). Never found another town in the United States with a Divine's drug store, much less one with a Crosley field.....that is when I came to the conclusion, someone was having fun with me, never thought to check the fonts (I too, am putting that little tidbit in my toolbox). In my 33 years of researching Joe, I've had more people come to me with "stuff" they thought was Joe, or belonged to Joe or was used by Joe and they wanted CRAZY money all because of his name. I had a guy try to sell me a mink coat that he said belong to Joe's wife, without any provenance.....just his word that he acquire it from her before she died and he wanted over 100K for it........NUTS!!! They see Shoeless and it turns into $hoele$$ in their minds!!!
On the broadside, the term "vendored" in the "food will be vendored" sentence bothered me when I first read it before doing any research. Prior to this, I had never seen that term used in a 1920's or 30's broadside or any other advertisement for a game with Joe Jackson. Reminds me when Pete Nash go hot and heavy on the Barry Halper Joe Jackson White Sox uniform at the Hall. The obviously undoing in that jersey is that it was made by Spalding and Wilson was the supplier of the Sox uniforms in Joe's day. The only thing was the Sox was sewn on with thread that was not developed until the 1940's. Hey Fakers.....if you're going to go to the trouble to try to fake us out, at least use period material :-)


Mike Nola
Official Historian
Shoeless Joe Jackson Virtual Hall of Fame
http://www.blackbetsy.com

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by blackbetsy

When I first saw this about 15 to 20 years back, I thought it might be legitimate, then I started researching drug stores named Devine / Devine's. I found one drug store in South Dakota from Joe's outlaw ball days, but that town did not have a Crosley Field. Of course, I thought of the Cincinnati field right off the bat, but never found a Divine's drug store in Cincinnati (I am fairly certainly, MLB and Landis would not have allowed Jackson to play at Crosley in Cincinnati, so I pretty much ruled that out from the get go). Never found another town in the United States with a Divine's drug store, much less one with a Crosley field.....that is when I came to the conclusion, someone was having fun with me, never thought to check the fonts (I too, am putting that little tidbit in my toolbox). In my 33 years of researching Joe, I've had more people come to me with "stuff" they thought was Joe, or belonged to Joe or was used by Joe and they wanted CRAZY money all because of his name. I had a guy try to sell me a mink coat that he said belong to Joe's wife, without any provenance.....just his word that he acquire it from her before she died and he wanted over 100K for it........NUTS!!! They see Shoeless and it turns into $hoele$$ in their minds!!!
On the broadside, the term "vendored" in the "food will be vendored" sentence bothered me when I first read it before doing any research. Prior to this, I had never seen that term used in a 1920's or 30's broadside or any other advertisement for a game with Joe Jackson. Reminds me when Pete Nash go hot and heavy on the Barry Halper Joe Jackson White Sox uniform at the Hall. The obviously undoing in that jersey is that it was made by Spalding and Wilson was the supplier of the Sox uniforms in Joe's day. The only thing was the Sox was sewn on with thread that was not developed until the 1940's. Hey Fakers.....if you're going to go to the trouble to try to fake us out, at least use period material :-)


Mike Nola
Official Historian
Shoeless Joe Jackson Virtual Hall of Fame
http://www.blackbetsy.com

Well, you do have this sign listed on your website with no mention that it is a fantasy piece. It's pretty much the only link that shows up in a search of this item besides the few times it's been auctioned off....If I were a prospective bidder and saw it listed on your site I might be inclined to bid on it.

http://www.blackbetsy.com/photosOutlawBallDays.html

[blackbetsy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well, you do have this sign listed on your website with no mention that it is a fantasy piece. It's pretty much the only link that shows up in a search of this item besides the few times it's been auctioned off....If I were a prospective bidder and saw it listed on your site I might be inclined to bid on it.

http://www.blackbetsy.com/photosOutlawBallDays.html

Whoops!!! This one got by us. We totally forgot we had this in the Outlaw Ball Days section of the site. It's been up for many years and we just totally forgot about it being there. We have corrected the listing to clearly let our visitors know that this is a fantasy broadside. Thanks for pointing that out to us.....now I'm gonna go wipe the egg off my face :-)

Mike Nola
Official Historian
Shoeless Joe Jackson Virtual Hall of Fame
http://www.blackbetsy.com

[Lordstan]

I agree with many of the last several posters have stated.
First, you post an item with some assertion of what it is and ask for our help identifying and pricing it. Someone has answered pretty much every thread questioning your identification of every item, with exception of the Pittsburgh and Gehrig Day items. Sometime the response was that it isn't the person you think. Other responses have been asking for more information or provenance from you regarding how you know what the item is. Your response is often a mixture of ignoring/ejecting the questions and challenges of the board members or some sort of double talk. I guess it's either meant to distract, you really have no idea what you are doing, or you are really wishing the things to be what you think that you are blinded to all reason. As I don't know you personally, I have no idea which it is, but it does get tiring. People get put off from answering as they don't feel it's worth going through the same dance over and over again.

[packs]

How did you (H&S) go about ID'ing the horse and carriage photo? The description states no parallel between the supposed manager and Rusie exists, yet it is priced to reflect Rusie being in the photo.

Just wondering what the determining factor was. The inscription on the back references the HOF, so it must have been made at least 35 years after Rusie's death. Does the AH agree that it is Rusie?