Marijuana laws- O/T

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I sure hope you are being sarcastic, unemployment in Colorado has FALLEN 30% in the past 2 years and remains under the national average:

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/colorado/

My mistake, I meant homelessness. Homlesssness up 153% over the last two years. And as far as medicinal purposes, yeah, all those people in the video looked like they were in a lot of pain

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My mistake, I meant homelessness. Homlesssness up 153% over the last two years. And as far as medicinal purposes, yeah, all those people in the video looked like they were in a lot of pain

Just curious David, are you for prohibition of alcohol?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Just curious David, are you for prohibition of alcohol?

Leon,

I don't drink. To me, most people that use alcohol or drugs do so because their lives are so pathetic that they have to use that kind of stuff to excape the reality of it...at least for a little while.

David

Edited to add: Maybe it's just me, but I never understood why people would want to alter their state of mind. Life is good. I want to be sober and enjoy every minute of it.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Leon,

I don't drink. To me, most people that use alcohol or drugs do so because their lives are so pathetic that they have to use that kind of stuff to excape the reality of it...at least for a little while.

David

That's a yes if you're scoring at home (or even if you're alone). At least he's consistent.

[packs]

If you are worried about people driving while stoned, where is your crusade against alcohol? The same people who drink and drive will smoke and drive. The same people who drink and walk home or take a cab will smoke and walk home or take a cab.

Get some perspective. Not everyone lives your life and not everyone is out to put other people in danger just because someone did on the news.

[rainier2004]

David - I generally enjoy your posts here but you are way off base on this.

Again, you must be one luck guy, you have never watched someone you love suffer...must be livin right. Well the perspective IT can give you is that you become willing to do anything to help them, to relieve it. You realize that chemo is poison and is legal, as well as experimental treatments that shred your body apart as well as the narcotics that are used to "help". Who the fuck are you to tell anyone what helps them?

Freedom is having the ability to choose without infringing on the rights of the others. How is someone using it, in their home, infringe on anyone's rights? It is no worse that current cultural standards. How does this affect you? What impact will this have on you?

S Suck.ow

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

David - I generally enjoy your posts here but you are way off base on this.

Again, you must be one luck guy, you have never watched someone you love suffer...must be livin right. Well the perspective IT can give you is that you become willing to do anything to help them, to relieve it. You realize that chemo is poison and is legal, as well as experimental treatments that shred your body apart as well as the narcotics that are used to "help". Who the fuck are you to tell anyone what helps them?

Freedom is having the ability to choose without infringing on the rights of the others. How is someone using it, in their home, infringe on anyone's rights? It is no worse that current cultural standards. How does this affect you? What impact will this have on you?

You make it sound as that ONLY marijuana can alleviate their pain.

How does it affect me? How about when they’re driving stoned and sharing the same road that I am?

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You make it sound as that ONLY marijuana can alleviate their pain.

How does it affect me? How about when they’re driving stoned and sharing the same road that I am?

Marijuana can do lots of things, one potential is impair judgment thus the laws that are in place against use and driving and that includes Texas. You would do the same thing when you see a drunk driver, report them. Legalization is not a bunch of stoners hanging outta windows firing up bongs.

David, your answer was deflective and I am guessing you have no real evidence to prove how legalization would infringe on your rights in any way and are simply stuck in your thinking as you have already alluded to a lack of understanding.

But again I ask, how does this affects you?

[darwinbulldog]

On the bright side, for those who are in favor of legalization, difference of opinion on the matter is largely what we in the social sciences call a cohort effect. People born prior to about 1950 are mostly opposed. People born later than about 1950 are mostly in favor, and individuals' opinions don't change with age very much - so public opinion inevitably becomes more favorable as, well, as old people die. Same deal with gay marriage.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

David - I generally enjoy your posts here but you are way off base on this.

Again, you must be one luck guy, you have never watched someone you love suffer...must be livin right. Well the perspective IT can give you is that you become willing to do anything to help them, to relieve it. You realize that chemo is poison and is legal, as well as experimental treatments that shred your body apart as well as the narcotics that are used to "help". Who the fuck are you to tell anyone what helps them?

Freedom is having the ability to choose without infringing on the rights of the others. How is someone using it, in their home, infringe on anyone's rights? It is no worse that current cultural standards. How does this affect you? What impact will this have on you?

Amen. As a libertarian I have always been for the legalization of marijuana. The "war on drugs" is nothing but an impossibly expensive run up Penrose Steps in my opinion. I have never done any illicit drug before, but it is not up to me to label or pass judgement upon anyone who does. As long as their activity does not interfere with my safety or freedoms then have at it.

Tom C

[veleno45]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Freedom is having the ability to choose without infringing on the rights of the others.

I am generally for anyone to do whatever the heck they damn well please, but I am undecided on the pot subject, but this quote is the problem I cannot get over.

If it is always done in the home, smoke away, have fun. But it does infringe upon my rights when taken to the streets. This statement will of course be compared to alcohol consumption which is not a proper comparison. I never got drunk while standing next to a man drinking beer.

SOmeone sell me on being a supporter of legalization without talking about rights infringement or the ridiculous "fewer criminals" and "end war on drugs" junk.

[Section103]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...ver-who-knows/


A thoughtful, measured insight into David's spurious link between legalized marijuana and rising homelessness here in Denver. Perhaps its not "enough said" after all.

[packs]

You are not getting high from standing next to someone smoking. Psychoactive elements of the drug occur when THC has entered the bloodstream. Second hand smoke does not contain THC.

Also, for anyone who is not educated about medical marijuana, it fully possible and in practice for medications with THC components to be controlled in such a way as the chemical reaction does not pass the blood / brain barrier.

In simpler terms, a child with a behavior disorder can be calmed down by the effects of a pill containing THC without experiencing any of the psychoactive side effects that smoking causes. So you get all the benefit and none of the "drug".

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by veleno45

I am generally for anyone to do whatever the heck they damn well please, but I am undecided on the pot subject, but this quote is the problem I cannot get over.

If it is always done in the home, smoke away, have fun. But it does infringe upon my rights when taken to the streets. This statement will of course be compared to alcohol consumption which is not a proper comparison. I never got drunk while standing next to a man drinking beer.

SOmeone sell me on being a supporter of legalization without talking about rights infringement or the ridiculous "fewer criminals" and "end war on drugs" junk.

That's kind of like saying "Sell me on why I shouldn't stick my hand into an active woodchipper without all the safety issues crap". I mean...when you narrow the scope of the rebuttal it doesn;t make for much of an effective debate.

Tom C

[brookdodger55]

FYI

Homelessness is up 150% in Denver as many head there for the free flow of weed costing the city a lot more money. Most shelters including the Salvation Army are funded by the city and the state along with private donations, cost have increased for all shelters. Most cities think about tax revenue but over look the added cost of treatment, homelessness and the decline of neighborhoods. Not for legalizing it.

Mike

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by brookdodger55

FYI

Homelessness is up 150% in Denver as many head there for the free flow of weed costing the city a lot more money. Most shelters including the Salvation Army are funded by the city and the state along with private donations, cost have increased for all shelters. Most cities think about tax revenue but over look the added cost of treatment, homelessness and the decline of neighborhoods. Not for legalizing it.

Mike

Don't forget about the link between homelessness and crime, and that the potential for crime increases if one has been homeless for an extended period of time.

[packs]

Well, what about if every state legalized it? Don't you think people seeking treatment would just remain where they are?

Your argument is confusing to me. You're basically saying that because treatment is available in one place and not others, that there is something surprising about people seeking treatment going to an area where they can receive it.

You are also saying anyone needing medical marijuana or looking to benefit medically from receiving treatment is homeless.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by brookdodger55

FYI

Homelessness is up 150% in Denver as many head there for the free flow of weed costing the city a lot more money. Most shelters including the Salvation Army are funded by the city and the state along with private donations, cost have increased for all shelters. Most cities think about tax revenue but over look the added cost of treatment, homelessness and the decline of neighborhoods. Not for legalizing it.

Mike

If this is true, it seems to me that Denver will have created something akin to a light gathering moths around it during the overnight hours. The attraction of legalized weed is a strong attaction for some whose sole purpose in life is to live off the government dole to begin with. The legalization, it would seem to me, did not suddenly create homelessness in Denver. Rather, it attracted those from elsewhere who were already predisposed in the first place. To me, there is no cause and effect relationship.

It is like saying the light at night created more moths in the world and thus if there were more lights everywhere we would be overrun by months. This is not true. It is called daytime. If marijuana were legalized everywhere, what you may be seeing in Danver is not what would happen everywhere. Those already predisposed would simply remain where they are and homeless populations would not skyrocket overnight.

Tom C

[packs]

There are zero valid arguments against legalizing medical marijuana.

Anyone saying no is probably someone who would gladly take painkillers like Oxycontin for no other reason than because a doctor prescribed it. Well guess what? Medical marijuana is prescribed by a doctor!

You would without hesitation consume medical heroin because in your eyes a doctor gave it to you. But for some reason you would take issue with a doctor prescribing medical marijuana, despite the fact that Oxycontin and drugs like it kill people every day, while there has never been anyone whose life was taken by marijuana. Give me a break. There are no logical arguments against it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brookdodger55

FYI

Homelessness is up 150% in Denver as many head there for the free flow of weed costing the city a lot more money. Most shelters including the Salvation Army are funded by the city and the state along with private donations, cost have increased for all shelters. Most cities think about tax revenue but over look the added cost of treatment, homelessness and the decline of neighborhoods. Not for legalizing it.

Mike

As I stated with some certainty, the cause of homelessness has almost nothing to do with marijuana. Out of thousands of homeless I have interviewed not one single person has told me it is because of marijuana. Not one. They have told me it's because of alcohol and other drugs, but not one person I have counseled has said it was marijuana that caused it. Nervous breakdowns, alcohol, hard drugs, mental disorders, a series of really poor choices...those are some of the reasons. But if anyone wants to use weed, roaming elephants, people playing guitar, or anything else they can imagine to say it causes homelessness, no one will stop you.

[veleno45]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

That's kind of like saying "Sell me on why I shouldn't stick my hand into an active woodchipper without all the safety issues crap". I mean...when you narrow the scope of the rebuttal it doesn;t make for much of an effective debate.

Tom C

I understand, but I feel those are weak arguments. If we legalize pot drug dealers disappear? No. Only the pot drug dealers...well, no again, of course not. Dealers are capitalist and will always grow/blend better stuff. So what is the argument for legalization? Purely our infringing on my rights? My rights are infringed every day because something isn't socially acceptable or isn't deemed safe. So what is the next discussion, taxes? Maybe I can agree with that at least.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by veleno45

I am generally for anyone to do whatever the heck they damn well please, but I am undecided on the pot subject, but this quote is the problem I cannot get over.

If it is always done in the home, smoke away, have fun. But it does infringe upon my rights when taken to the streets. This statement will of course be compared to alcohol consumption which is not a proper comparison. I never got drunk while standing next to a man drinking beer.

SOmeone sell me on being a supporter of legalization without talking about rights infringement or the ridiculous "fewer criminals" and "end war on drugs" junk.

Why would it be legal to smoke openly on the streets? I believe that constitutes public intoxication and possibly disorderly conduct but I'm no lawyer. So if marijuana is being used in a legal way, how does this affect you? Tell me why it should be illegal?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Why would it be legal to smoke openly on the streets? I believe that constitutes public intoxication and possibly disorderly conduct but I'm no lawyer. So if marijuana is being used in a legal way, how does this affect you? Tell me why it should be illegal?

I thought that I saw somewhere that after the SF Giants won the World Series on year, at their parade, you could smell weed in the air. I couldn't find an article on that, but I did find this one: Link

[packs]

But what does that have to do with anything? Have you ever been to a football game? Half the stadium is drinking in the parking lot.

Ever been to NYC on St. Patrick's Day? How about New Year's Eve? What do you think the streets look like?

Or even simpler. In your casual knowledge about marijuana and it's effects on people, would you say there are likely to be more or less violent crimes committed by people using marijuana or people getting black out drunk?

[glynparson]

are the wookies of the world. Many would have been following the Grateful Dead if this were 25 years ago. These are not the typical homeless even the reporter states that. These are people that came there for the weed, the weed did not cause the homelessness. For the record I have used cannabis under a doctors prescription, I felt it was absolutely helpful.

[tschock]

"SOmeone sell me on being a supporter of legalization without talking about rights infringement ..."

Seriously? There need be no defense beyond this. If it something infringes on someone's rights, that infringement is illegal. Or should be. Rights are something that can only be taken away. They are NOT granted to us by the state, contrary to what some modern statists (in "progressive" clothing) would have you believe.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My mistake, I meant homelessness. Homlesssness up 153% over the last two years. And as far as medicinal purposes, yeah, all those people in the video looked like they were in a lot of pain

Thank you, David, for providing a perfect example of the post hoc fallacy for all of Net 54's budding lawyers.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, meaning "after this, therefore because of this."

Marijuana was legalized in Colorado. The homeless rate in Colorado has increased by 153% over the last two years. Therefore, the legalization of marijuana in Colorado has caused a 153% increase in homelessness over the last two years.

[mark evans]

I think the homelessness is largely attributable to the large influx of folks seeking jobs in the marijuana industry, as opposed to long-standing Colorado residents who decided to smoke pot under the new law and then, for some reason, stop paying their mortgage or rent.

As I understand the facts, many of the new residents are unable to locate jobs in the industry due simply to the insufficient number of positions and the strict Colorado law that prohibits those with felony convictions from working in the industry.