Overpriced cards

[1952boyntoncollector]

Auction is a true market price. there are some high and lows at auction but thats the market. If you have something listed for a year its not at market price in the format its listed when selling a card. Simple as that.

When need to sell at market price, people usually dont have a year to wait around to sell the card. I think most people would agree if it takes more than 3 or so months to sell its not a market price for the time period. I have used a house analogy a few time. Yes if own a house you can list it for years and maybe sell it 4 years later, but houses go stale after 60-90s and are not considered to be at 'market price' Just because you sell an item 4 years later doesnt mean it was at market price the first year. People die in a year. Sellers and Buyers die.

You have a 1952 Mantle topps in 1965 in EX conditon and you want $17,000. Its not market price at the time. It is market price potentially now but who cares if you are dead by then. Thats why market price is for a more limited time period than a year traditionally for collectibles.

Also I think when Dealers say 'they dont need to sell' combined with the fact the card is listed for years. I dont think its in response to low ball offers. I think its they really dont need to sell...at market price...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Auction is a true market price. there are some high and lows at auction but thats the market. If you have something listed for a year its not at market price in the format its listed when selling a card. Simple as that.

When need to sell at market price, people usually dont have a year to wait around to sell the card. I think most people would agree if it takes more than 3 or so months to sell its not a market price for the time period. I have used a house analogy a few time. Yes if own a house you can list it for years and maybe sell it 4 years later, but houses go stale after 60-90s and are not considered to be at 'market price' Just because you sell an item 4 years later doesnt mean it was at market price the first year. People die in a year. Sellers and Buyers die.

You have a 1952 Mantle topps in 1965 in EX conditon and you want $17,000. Its not market price at the time. It is market price potentially now but who cares if you are dead by then. Thats why market price is for a more limited time period than a year traditionally for collectibles.

Also I think when Dealers say 'they dont need to sell' combined with the fact the card is listed for years. I dont think its in response to low ball offers. I think its they really dont need to sell...at market price...

I don't agree with almost anything you stated above. The analogy of cards and houses is not a valid one. The strategy of selling using BIN's involves more than just pricing. It's true that if you only have a few items for sale, you need to turn them over very quickly. If you have more capital and can afford to have 500 items up for sale, as opposed to 10, 50, 100, even 200, then your volume, especially if it covers many categories, is going to cause ALL items to get more views, which means more sales. Every time I put 20 items up for sale on ebay, I get offers on other items that may have been sitting around for months. And if you add items consistently, the older items are going to have an even better chance of selling, again - because of the new views;i.e-people see your new items and then view 'by seller' and find your others.

And that is if you do nothing with the 'stale' items except let them just sit.

But think whatever you want. We've heard these complaints hundreds of times here - you have plenty of company.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Understood about BINs

but i am not against Dealers charging a lot. If you look at my posts i am quite happy because it allows non-dealors who are just hobbyist to get more for their cards than if the dealer prices were more competitive.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Understood about BINs

but i am not against Dealers charging a lot. If you look at my posts i am quite happy because it allows non-dealors who are just hobbyist to get more for their cards than if the dealer prices were more competitive.

That's a good point. The only problem is that I really believe the high-volume fixed-price dealers get more for their cards because of volume. Basically, the chances are better that someone is looking for on of the cards up for sale - they don't have to sell ALL of them. A hobbyist, on the other hand, has far fewer cards up for sale at any one time, so the odds of finding someone who is looking for one of their specific cards, and willing to pay higher prices, are much lower.

The volume thing is critical. I have a volume number and a 'price above cost' percentage that I always try to stay at - if I keep the two going, sales roll in at a rate that I need. If I had a lower volume number I would have to turn my inventory over quicker, which would be more difficult because I would be missing the views generated by higher volumes. And to turn inventory over quicker, I would have to accept lower prices...meaning less profit. The ebay formula rewards high volume and fixed-prices. It drives out the low-volume guys any way you look at it.

[glynparson]

Only an indicator of the market for those that saw the auction. This idea that every auction ends for market price is laughable. I guess the brown old mill that sold in auction for around 20 or so is now only worth $20. The result of an auction would only be true market if the entire market for the card was engaged in the auction for it. Every auction even REA has some lots go for less then full value.

[1952boyntoncollector]

right i not saying, 1 auction on ebay for a week is market price...but if you look at say 7 auction results over a 7 week period...factor in the highs and the lows and you can average out a market price

the fact that you can say that the auction prices are not market price as a whole is laughable as ebay is a true market....its the dealers who are asking for an amount over market are the same ones that say REA and ebay auction prices on average are not market price....

in fact you can argue that if theres is only 1 or 2 bidders over a certain amount of money that market price is lower than what the card sold for because the winning bidder may no longer be a competeting bidder...if you see 5 or so bids over a certain amount than you know that certain amount in which the 5 or so unique bidders bid above is a safe baseline market....

thats why buy it now prices are terrible indicators of market price......

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Only an indicator of the market for those that saw the auction. This idea that every auction ends for market price is laughable. I guess the brown old mill that sold in auction for around 20 or so is now only worth $20. The result of an auction would only be true market if the entire market for the card was engaged in the auction for it. Every auction even REA has some lots go for less then full value.

how can you say an REA lot that caters to the group that buys the cards and understands the nuances of card collecting sells some lots 'for less than full value'

thats like the people who say 'couldnt sell my house' they mean to say 'couldnt sell my house at market value'

i not sure what 'full value' is when you cant sell it a huge auction house with months of people viewing it....

the other issue with cards is we all know there are inherit problems with value down the line....gold is likely to keep its value 30 years from now more than cards..... so cards is the one thing that i wouldnt use the analogy like works of art to say 'everything sells eventually'...sells yes..but sells at prices that go over market value as determined by multiple auctions...we shall see

[1952boyntoncollector]

Why is it if auctions houses and ebay are far lower than market price are the majority of major profit from card dealers are from direct buy purchases from individuals....why arent the majority of the profit made from cards from purchases made on ebay and REA and resold at a an easy market value profit if ebay and rea are so routinely below market..should be real easy to make easy profit there?

maybe i am wrong and most profit is made on buying on ebay on bad auctions prices and circumstances (the 3 day auction versus 7 day auction for example)

but i think when buying in person and in bulk you will get a better deal on then you would on ebay/rea auctions...so my point being that ebay/rea are still in that 'retail' price world even during auctions that have been argued in this thread as to be much lower than the real value. Thus, they got to be close to market price because in most cases you cant just turn around and make a profit like you can in direct buys from individuals off ebay and auction house land...

but again i am not a dealer so perhaps ebay is a big source of resell income because auction prices are routinely so low ..and way below market

[Luke]

Yeah, I don't really agree either. An auction will establish market price only if all potential buyers are aware of the auction. You can say that REA establishes market prices, but the same is not true for ebay. All the time I see an auction end at $X, and then the same card is re-listed by mikedenero or someone like that at $2X, and it sells eventually.

I think true market value is somewhere in the middle. An auction on ebay will never maximize an item's sale price, but it may be best for the seller to move it right away. If a seller has a large inventory, they can afford to have that card sit at a higher price point until it sells (pretty much what Scott was saying I think). If I need to sell a card right away, I can't ask for the latest price that mikedenero just got for that same card (I could ask, but I'll hear crickets). One of the reasons some cards sell after 3 months at a higher price than auction results would indicate is that sometimes it took that long for the buyer to see it.