Seller: "Ill just keep it" tactics in negotiation

[vintagetoppsguy]

I woke up with a slight headache. It just got worse...and I didn't even make it though all the posts.

[ullmandds]

Truth is...most collectors think their cards are better and more valuable than others...especially their rarer ones! That being said...if someone wants a card I have..that I don't want to sell...they'd better make an impressive offer if they expect me to part with it...market value will not do in such situations!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Truth is...most collectors think their cards are better and more valuable than others...especially their rarer ones! That being said...if someone wants a card I have..that I don't want to sell...they'd better make an impressive offer if they expect me to part with it...market value will not do in such situations!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I woke up with a slight headache. It just got worse...and I didn't even make it though all the posts.

I don't understand what is being asked either.

[packs]

It usually means you want the card more than the seller wants to sell it. I'll give a quick example:

Not too long ago I had a signed T206 that a fellow board member had their eye on. I made no attempts at all to sell it. However, one day I got a PM with an offer I couldn't justify turning down. So I sold it.

Had that offer not been so enticing, I would have said no thanks I'm going to keep it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

When a seller at the end of all negotiations with all possible sellers ends up 'keeping the card' Can we all agree the seller was not willing to sell the card at market price....

[ullmandds]

Occasionally I have board members contact me regarding card(s) I have in my collection that are not for sale. They ask me if the cards are for sale. I say no. They proceed to shoot me a lowball offer...and then seem offended when I act offended.

Really????

[1952boyntoncollector]

i said if 'actively selling' i agree that if someone contacts me for a card that i am not actively selling i will want more than market price..

but if actively selling is the important part of my question..

[1952boyntoncollector]

i think enough people understand what im asking...

this is my last post of the thread..i think i got my answer .which is YES...thanks...

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i think enough people understand what im asking...

this is my last post of the thread..i think i got my answer .which is YES...thanks...

Didn't even realize this was a yes or no question, lol.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i think enough people understand what im asking...

this is my last post of the thread..i think i got my answer .which is YES...thanks...

I Do Hate to Ask... However, I Just Gotta Know!?!?


"Chao... iS That You? ... Peter???"

[Luke]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

When a seller at the end of all negotiations with all possible sellers ends up 'keeping the card' Can we all agree the seller was not willing to sell the card at market price....

Is it possible the guy just couldn't tell what you were talking about? Even if you took the time to edit these thoughts and put them into sentences with punctuation, it still wouldn't make sense.

"When a seller at the end of all negotiations with all possible sellers..."

I don't think you're going to get the agreement you're looking for when you make posts that are unintelligible.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

When a seller at the end of all negotiations with all possible sellers ends up 'keeping the card' Can we all agree the seller was not willing to sell the card at market price....

Nope.

The issue I have with this is the assumption that there is a 'market' generating a 'market price' that an unreasonable vendor refuses to meet. That doesn't make real world sense to me. If there is a genuine market price that means there are plenty of recent sales in a ready marketplace, and therefore plenty of examples to choose from. If that is the case, then there is no logic behind the buyer dickering with the seller over the item; the buyer can just move onto the next example. The "I'll just keep it" negotiating scenario makes sense only if the item is sufficiently difficult to find to make it worthwhile to go back and forth, but in that case by definition there is no 'market' and therefore no 'market price' that can be relied on. Look, I had a tough though not rare card for sale and I went through the same sort of haggling with a wannabe buyer. He cited me this and that resource and I came back to the same position every time: if you can find it for that price, go buy it for that price. He couldn't and he paid me 95% of my ask in the end. The fact that a potential buyer was researching prices, haggling, etc., disproves the existence of a ready market for the card, hence disproves the assertion that there is a market price.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

When a seller at the end of all negotiations with all possible sellers ends up 'keeping the card' Can we all agree the seller was not willing to sell the card at market price....

You mean with all possible BUYERS?

[drcy]

A few points:

1) It sounds as if you can't find that particular card being sold by someone else (or you would have bought it from that person at desired price), so the seller has more leverage than just 'market price.' If this is the only one on the market and you're trying to procure it, this transaction is the market at this point and time.

2) "I'll keep it" is a literally correct phrase. There was a recent post complaining about sellers making up lies for why they won't sell, and this guy is telling you straight. He's keeping the card.

3) As a seller, I (and I know others) get quickly tired of 'negotiation types.' Back and forth negotiations get old quickly for me. I've also had buyers ask for the lowest price I'll sell, I'll calculate the price and the buyer will offer a lower price. My thought is "I just was honest and gave you my lowest price." It's an insult to my honesty because I'm an honest person. So people who like negotiating a lot can get tiresome and after a while I'll say "Forget this, I'm just keeping the card. I don't want to sell it anymore. I'd rather be watching telelvision."

4) The market value can be low. I think there are items that are currently way undervalued, there are baseball cards that have proven to be undervalued over time. If the market prices were always accurate, prices would never rise or fall.

5) Did you make an offer below market value? Do you make offers elsewhere below market value? If so, then what's with this 'market value as final arbiter of sales price' argument? If you can make an offer below market value, then why can't a seller go above it?

6) As a seller, I know the ultimate power in negotiations is I when don't have to sell something. A seller should never say before negotiations "I need money quick and have to sell this asap." There's nothing I have to sell. If I throw it all in dumpster, I'll still have a place to live and food to eat.

7) If you are rude to my mother or other customers at her garage sale, she will refuse to sell you anything at any price. She'll throw the stuff away before she sells to you. It has nothing to do with money or market value. At that point, trying to make those arguments with her is pointless. And before you try and be tricky and lowball her, realize that my mother is always this far (my index finger 1/4th inch in front of thumb) from giving the stuff to charity, so if sellers are rude or unreasonable or offers are low she will give the stuff away to charity. Often times she's having the garage sale to raise money for a charity.

And I can promise you that if you say to my mom "You have to sell it at market value," she will say "I don't have to do anything. It's mine."

My dad had a colleague who once asked him in the hallway if he was going to that afternoon's departmental meeting and my dad said he wasn't. The colleague asked why not and my dad said "Because I don't want to." The uptight follow rules and order colleague couldn't even fathom that as a reason for not going. "Not wanting to" as a reason fell outside his logic system. This story comes to mind when people state 'written in stone' rules such as "You have to sell at market price. That's the rule." My dad would respond "There are options other than selling at market price. One is to go to lunch. Another is to take a nap."

[Sean]

David, I thought that was a really good reply.

[detroitbaseball]

"Somebody asked me if my club was for sale. What a ridiculous question! Of course it is for sale! So is my hat and my overcoat and my watch. Anyone who wants them can have them, at a price. I will dispose of my holdings in the Red Sox at any time, for my price." - Harry Frazee (owner of the Boston Red Sox 1916-1923)

Ken Burns' Baseball, 4th Inning: 1920-1930

[Runscott]

The other thing about David's mother is that if you were really, really nice to her, she would probably give you the item for free.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drcy

7) If you are rude to my mother or other customers at her garage sale, she will refuse to sell you anything at any price. She'll throw the stuff away before she sells to you. It has nothing to do with money or market value. At that point, trying to make those arguments is pointless. And before you try and be tricky and lowball her, realize that my mother is always this far (my index finger 1/4th inch in front of thumb) from giving the stuff to charity, so if sellers are rude or unreasonable or offers are low she will give the stuff away to charity. Often times she's having the garage sale to raise money for a charity.

I place a certain dollar value on having to deal with nits. If I didn't, I would still be earning good money working for corporate America. I honestly believe that most people can't think outside of dollars and products. That's why God invented Tums.

[steve B]

To me that's really cool.

My mother is also pretty tough to deal with at yard sales or flea markets. One time I got back from shopping the flea market and she told me to go shop some more. when I asked why she mentioned the card vultures who were hovering at the end of the row waiting for me to leave. They figured on taking advantage of the old lady while I was gone. Bad bad choice. I had stuff marked at catalog price, and had given her the list of the 3-4 cards I wouldn't take less for. The rest I said she could sell for whatever she could get. Which turned out to be around 90% of high Beckett. I almost felt bad.

Steve B

Originally Posted by drcy

7) If you are rude to my mother or other customers at her garage sale, she will refuse to sell you anything at any price. She'll throw the stuff away before she sells to you. It has nothing to do with money or market value. At that point, trying to make those arguments with her is pointless. And before you try and be tricky and lowball her, realize that my mother is always this far (my index finger 1/4th inch in front of thumb) from giving the stuff to charity, so if sellers are rude or unreasonable or offers are low she will give the stuff away to charity. Often times she's having the garage sale to raise money for a charity.

And I can promise you that if you say to my mom "You have to sell it at market value," she will say "I don't have to do anything. It's mine."

My dad had a colleague who once asked him in the hallway if he was going to that afternoon's departmental meeting and my dad said he wasn't. The colleague asked why not and my dad said "Because I don't want to." The uptight follow rules and order colleague couldn't even fathom that as a reason for not going. "Not wanting to" as a reason fell outside his logic system. This story comes to mind when people state 'written in stone' rules such as "You have to sell at market price. That's the rule." My dad would respond "There are options other than selling at market price. One is to go to lunch. Another is to take a nap."