HOF Golden Era Results

[timn1]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Who wants to go visit the grave of Arky Vaughan and give him the bad news?

+1, well put. I want Arky in there!

What is this mania for preserving the "standards" of the HOF? Sure, there are some clunkers in there (Hooper, Ferrell, the infamous Frisch-led infield of Kelly, Jackson, and Lindstrom), but for the most part the Veterans Committee has righted a lot of omissions that the sportswriters collectively committed.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by timn1

+1, well put. I want Arky in there!

What is this mania for preserving the "standards" of the HOF? Sure, there are some clunkers in there (Hooper, Ferrell, the infamous Frisch-led infield of Kelly, Jackson, and Lindstrom), but for the most part the Veterans Committee has righted a lot of omissions that the sportswriters collectively committed.

+2. If Arky's not in there, you need to kick out every SS not name Honus Wagner. I'm glad the current committee didn't elect anyone. I don't think those guys are HOFers, but looking at the back log on the ballot right now, I can see the need a few years down the road.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by timn1

Sure, there are some clunkers in there...Hooper...

It seems this will keep being thrown out there, and I'll keep defending Hooper as a legitimate and completely deserving HOFer. I'll copy an updated version what I wrote several times before:

A few points about Hooper:

- He was a lead-off man with more pop than most,
- His job was to score runs - he scored 1429 of them (#82 all time), averaging 100 per full season over his entire career,
- Ranked #106 all time in career base hits,
- Ranked #40 all time in triples, which means, in that era, both speed and power,
- Drew over 1000 walks, averaging 80 per full season, good for #71 all-time,
- Glove? Not even a question. One of the greatest ever. Key component of what many regard as the best outfield of all time,
- World Series? Unreal with both glove and bat. Won 4 World Series titles with Red Sox between 1912-1918. The key player who was a constant in all 4 Red Sox championship years. Hooper is the only HOFer to play in all 4 years of the Red Sox dynasty of the 1910s. And Speaker only played 2 of the 4. Can you imagine the uproar in New York if a team from that city won 4 World Series titles in 7 years and only sent one guy from those teams to the HOF? Unthinkable.
- First player ever to hit 2 home runs in a single WS game in 1915,
- Also stole 375 bases, good for #90 all-time,
- The first and longest part of his career was played in the dead ball era with Boston. He hit .272 over this period. He went to Chicago roughly when the lively ball came into play and after that - in the seasons forming the twilight of his career - he hit .302...pretty good evidence of the effect of the lively ball on the stats of some players.

So I strongly disagree with the widely-held idea that Hooper does not belong. To me he is an obvious HOFer.

Cheers,
Blair

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

It seems this will keep being thrown out there, and I'll keep defending Hooper as a legitimate and completely deserving HOFer. I'll copy an updated version what I wrote several times before:

A few points about Hooper:

- He was a lead-off man with more pop than most,
- His job was to score runs - he scored 1429 of them (#82 all time), averaging 100 per full season over his entire career,
- Ranked #106 all time in career base hits,
- Ranked #40 all time in triples, which means, in that era, both speed and power,
- Drew over 1000 walks, averaging 80 per full season, good for #71 all-time,
- Glove? Not even a question. One of the greatest ever. Key component of what many regard as the best outfield of all time,
- World Series? Unreal with both glove and bat. Won 4 World Series titles with Red Sox between 1912-1918. The key player who was a constant in all 4 Red Sox championship years. Hooper is the only HOFer to play in all 4 years of the Red Sox dynasty of the 1910s. And Speaker only played 2 of the 4. Can you imagine the uproar in New York if a team from that city won 4 World Series titles in 7 years and only sent one guy from those teams to the HOF? Unthinkable.
- First player ever to hit 2 home runs in a single WS game in 1915,
- Also stole 375 bases, good for #90 all-time,
- The first and longest part of his career was played in the dead ball era with Boston. He hit .272 over this period. He went to Chicago roughly when the lively ball came into play and after that - in the seasons forming the twilight of his career - he hit .302...pretty good evidence of the effect of the lively ball on the stats of some players.

So I strongly disagree with the widely-held idea that Hooper does not belong. To me he is an obvious HOFer.

Cheers,
Blair

I never though there was any real controversy over Hooper being in the Hall. He may not be a top tier or even a mid tier Hall Of Fame player, but he is deserving for his steady play and key contributions to one of the great early dynasties.

I would put him in before someone like Tony Lazzeri.

Tom C

[vintagehofrookies]

I'm still pissed Minnie didn't get in.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by vintagehofrookies

I'm still pissed Minnie didn't get in.

Me Too! He's very deserving.

[Chris-Counts]

Dan, I know how you feel. The fact that Minnie isn't in is proof baseball's Hall of Fame balloting is totally busted. If you look at all Minnie achieved — he was a five tool player who was baseball's first Spanish-speaking star, and put up stellar numbers for a decade despite missing several prime years as a result of the color of his skin — he's unquestionably a Hall of Famer. I can't take the Hall of Fame seriously until he's in.

[Fred]

First off, I'm not saying I think Bunning shouldn't be in the HOF, nor am I saying he should....

4 x 19W seasons and only 1 x 20W season (and it was exactly 20Ws).... just one more W in 3 of 4 of those seasons would have helped....

[brian1961]

wolf441----Your rundown on Dick Allen was extremely well-written and thought provocative. The only thing I might add is that when he came to Chicago, he had what I believe was his best year, happiest year, and it was one glorious honeymoon for all concerned. For a while.

Then Dick reverted to his divisive ways of stinkin' thinkin' and everything went to pot all over again.

Sure, he had some "Hall of Famer" years; but in retrospect, he has absolutely no place on a bronze plaque at Cooperstown. By this time, most horses probably don't want him hanging around them, either.

You guys who say Minnie Minoso belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame----KEEP SHOUTING, MAKING NOISE, AND BOMBARD THE HALL!!!! Minnie needs a guy like the one that helped found SPORTS SCOOP in the early 70s and launched a tirade of "The Dirty Deal" articles at the BHOF for the way they had long ignored Earl Averill. It worked. Earl got elected, and rightfully so.


Minnie Minoso belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. He may not wear a World Series ring, but his name rings loud and strong among us who have studied his contributions to the Chicago White Sox and Latin people, beginning at the not so tender age of, what was it, 29!?!

This won't count, of course, but in 1961, in the northwest suburb of Chicago where I lived, when you got Minnie Minoso's Topps baseball card, it was just as exciting as when you got Mickey Mantle's. ---Brian Powell

[rats60]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Minnie Minoso belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. He may not wear a World Series ring, but his name rings loud and strong among us who have studied his contributions to the Chicago White Sox and Latin people, beginning at the not so tender age of, what was it, 29!?!

Minoso's major league debut was at the age of 23.

[SteveMitchell]

Blair deserves kudos for his outstanding defense of Harry Hooper's record. As I paged through Deadball Stars of the American League and Deadball Stars of the National League I became increasingly impressed by the baseball ability of many who played during the T206 era, who contributed mightily to their teams and who, sadly, have been largely forgotten or overlooked due to the differences in strategy, the style of play and even the baseballs used.

Well done, Blair. What applies to Harry Hooper (in various ways) applies to a goodly number of other Deadball Era stars including Sherry Magee, Stuffy McInnis, Jake Daubert and others.

As others have said, Harry Hooper IS a Hall of Famer and deserves to be one - as does Jim Bunning.

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

It seems this will keep being thrown out there, and I'll keep defending Hooper as a legitimate and completely deserving HOFer. I'll copy an updated version what I wrote several times before:

A few points about Hooper:

- He was a lead-off man with more pop than most,
- His job was to score runs - he scored 1429 of them (#82 all time), averaging 100 per full season over his entire career,
- Ranked #106 all time in career base hits,
- Ranked #40 all time in triples, which means, in that era, both speed and power,
- Drew over 1000 walks, averaging 80 per full season, good for #71 all-time,
- Glove? Not even a question. One of the greatest ever. Key component of what many regard as the best outfield of all time,
- World Series? Unreal with both glove and bat. Won 4 World Series titles with Red Sox between 1912-1918. The key player who was a constant in all 4 Red Sox championship years. Hooper is the only HOFer to play in all 4 years of the Red Sox dynasty of the 1910s. And Speaker only played 2 of the 4. Can you imagine the uproar in New York if a team from that city won 4 World Series titles in 7 years and only sent one guy from those teams to the HOF? Unthinkable.
- First player ever to hit 2 home runs in a single WS game in 1915,
- Also stole 375 bases, good for #90 all-time,
- The first and longest part of his career was played in the dead ball era with Boston. He hit .272 over this period. He went to Chicago roughly when the lively ball came into play and after that - in the seasons forming the twilight of his career - he hit .302...pretty good evidence of the effect of the lively ball on the stats of some players.

So I strongly disagree with the widely-held idea that Hooper does not belong. To me he is an obvious HOFer.

Cheers,
Blair

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by SteveMitchell

Well done, Blair.

Thanks very much, Steve!

Cheers,
Blair