Poll: Is this T206 Elberfeld Washington Real or Fake?

[Thromdog]

I say we pool some money and send it off to GAI to get graded......oh wait.

[ullmandds]

guys! that L is F'ed up!

[pete zouras]

[irishdenny]

For me its Allbout da Papar... Da Papar Isn't even close!
The ShalackiN iT Took covers SoMe oF da Facts...
oR iN ThiS Case, Da Re~PriNT Papar!

Totally Fake!!!

[ullmandds]

dunno! i find in a lot of fakes the type is not right. remember te graded probstein magie? those L's look like the horizontal portion are down sloping to me...unlike any authentic ones I've seen...and as denny says the stock looks way off.

[atx840]

[4815162342]

Chris, you are awesome.

[ullmandds]

wow Chris...way cool!

[brianp-beme]

I believe Chris was the one responsible for the family portraits at the end of the Haunted Mansion ride at Disneyland. Nice Job!

Brian

[mrvster]

[Ladder7]

Counterfeit. As suggested, it may be a skinned back. Rarely are the Elberfeld (W) not OC. Beginner collectors would be wise to invest in a black light, before investing in cards.

[pete zouras]

Resident card expert Kevin Saucier has offered to look at the card for me. I will ship it to him and he will give what I consider to be the final word (yea or nay) on its authenticity. Thanks Kevin!

[ZachS]

It's got some pretty sharp corners for something that looks like it went through a garbage disposal.

[jbsports33]

The background tone and front face image as well as the black border seems to make it stand out as a fake - but a loop is what I would use anyways with something this bad

Jimmy

[steve B]

I think it's real.

The closeups that show the lips and the uniform near the bottom border look right for the way the colors were layered and screened.

Steve B

[onlychild]

Got the card.

I am a bit rusty but this card is very real in my opinion. It has a typical 206 litho on time era fiber card stock; not printed front or back with a modern laser or inkjet. It passed the black light test and I cannot see where it has been refronted/rebacked, reshaped, or recolored. (*note- refronting can be very tough to determine if done well)

Can't understand why but unfortunately it has been recently retoned (either accidentally or with intent) with what seems to be coffee, rather sloppily I might add. Doesn't appear to be trimmed. The card is a hot mess.

Just my humble opinion, I've been wrong before.

Kevin Saucier

[Pat R]

Hi Kevin, I don't think it has been refronted, it has the same stray print mark/defect as some of the other Elberfeld (portraits). Here's the card in question with another Elberfeld (wash) portrait.


Patrick

[onlychild]

Hi Pat, refronting is taking the very thin original card front and placing it on another back. The long process often goes wrong and the card front (or back) is mangled...not unlike this card. However, when done with skill, it is near impossible to tell even with the best trained eye.

Kevin

[Bpm0014]

I hate to say WE told you so.....

[ullmandds]

i still think its fake...but I have been wrong...and IF it is real...it is REAL UGLY!!!!!

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by onlychild

Hi Pat, refronting is taking the very thin original card front and placing it on another back. The long process often goes wrong and the card front (or back) is mangled...not unlike this card. However, when done with skill, it is near impossible to tell even with the best trained eye.

Kevin

What I was trying to say is both Elberfelds have the same mark on the backs
that are were not part of the normal printing process and this particular mark
would have only been on Elberfelds or possibly one other player from the same sheet position if the back plates were used on two different sets of fronts. If it were refronted it would of had to have been done on a card with
the same mark on the back.

Here's an example of a more pronounced mark that is found on several
Ganzel and Brains that came from the same sheet positions.

[Leon]

I'll concede to Kevin's opinion on this one since he has had it in hand. I am surprised but not dumbfounded. It just doesn't have that "real" look to me, from the pics shown, but so be it. I will be wrong again, hopefully not too soon.

[T2069bk]

I will concede to Kevins opinion as well (but would not have risked my $5 for it), and learned not to drink coffee next to any valuable cards!!!!

[obcmac]

Still a fake. Characteristic printing of a reprint, heavy atypical wear...plus a valuable card to boot. Either of the first two is a huge red flag...both on a commonly reprinted, expensive card, and people still think it's real???

Mac

[deadballfreaK]

Just looks like one of those reprint Ty Cobbs that they pour coffee on, run over with a truck, tear in in two. put tape on, rip the tape off, trim, and then say "Found this in a yard sale. Looks old to me.".

[glynparson]

I know, like, and trust Kevin so I assume he is probably correct, however I still am not willing to state 100% it is real without looking at it myself. Good to see you post on here again Kevin. (Though the coffee was one of my main concerns from the start.)