whats your HOF philosophy???

Kenny Cole · #1 01-07-2015, 08:22 PM

Rats60,

They took greenies until at least 2004. That is 34 years after they were illegal. In 2007, Eric Chavez wondered what the replacement would be, because he didn't think players could go without them for a season. I hesitate to call you an idiot, but you are clearly clueless about the legality of amphetamines or their effect.

Moonlight Graham · #2 01-07-2015, 09:52 PM

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything about this steroid era, but I get the feeling that the powers that be look at cheaters in different ways. The cheaters from the old days, for the most part, did it for the team and winning was all that mattered. But the PED users of the 1990's-2000's did it for themselves. Hitting the farthest home runs and being on Sportscenter every night came first-team success was second. And of course the big contracts that came with all those homers. Same with some of the pitchers. Strike outs were the only outs that mattered to them. Again, I'm not saying that I personally believe this, but it's just the overall feeling I get. However, if some of these PED guy would have just come out and admitted it immediately and addressed the reasons why they did it, maybe it would be a different story at election time. If nothing else you could at least respect them more. Just my two cents.

conor912 · #3 01-07-2015, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight Graham

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything about this steroid era, but I get the feeling that the powers that be look at cheaters in different ways. The cheaters from the old days, for the most part, did it for the team and winning was all that mattered. But the PED users of the 1990's-2000's did it for themselves. Hitting the farthest home runs and being on Sportscenter every night came first-team success was second. And of course the big contracts that came with all those homers. Same with some of the pitchers. Strike outs were the only outs that mattered to them. Again, I'm not saying that I personally believe this, but it's just the overall feeling I get. However, if some of these PED guy would have just come out and admitted it immediately and addressed the reasons why they did it, maybe it would be a different story at election time. If nothing else you could at least respect them more. Just my two cents.

good post.

Kenny Cole · #4 01-07-2015, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight Graham

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything about this steroid era, but I get the feeling that the powers that be look at cheaters in different ways. The cheaters from the old days, for the most part, did it for the team and winning was all that mattered. But the PED users of the 1990's-2000's did it for themselves. Hitting the farthest home runs and being on Sportscenter every night came first-team success was second. And of course the big contracts that came with all those homers. Same with some of the pitchers. Strike outs were the only outs that mattered to them. Again, I'm not saying that I personally believe this, but it's just the overall feeling I get. However, if some of these PED guy would have just come out and admitted it immediately and addressed the reasons why they did it, maybe it would be a different story at election time. If nothing else you could at least respect them more. Just my two cents.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said. I don't imagine they will ever publicly discuss their reasoning though. Here's my take for what its worth: You are talking about elite athletes who are competing against other elite athletes. The difference is razor thin between an all star and a bench guy.

If one of those guys can do something that gives them a small advantage and keeps them in the league, they will take it. They have to. If they can do something that gives them a big advantage, they will absolutely take it. They view it as necessary. From their perspective, its a no-brainer. That keeps them in the league, making money, and feeding their family. Not defending it, but I sort of understand how that could end up happening.

Runscott · #5 01-08-2015, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight Graham

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything about this steroid era, but I get the feeling that the powers that be look at cheaters in different ways. The cheaters from the old days, for the most part, did it for the team and winning was all that mattered. But the PED users of the 1990's-2000's did it for themselves. Hitting the farthest home runs and being on Sportscenter every night came first-team success was second. And of course the big contracts that came with all those homers. Same with some of the pitchers. Strike outs were the only outs that mattered to them. Again, I'm not saying that I personally believe this, but it's just the overall feeling I get. However, if some of these PED guy would have just come out and admitted it immediately and addressed the reasons why they did it, maybe it would be a different story at election time. If nothing else you could at least respect them more. Just my two cents.

Regarding the 'old days' cheaters, please give examples of their 'doing it for the team'. All the cases I can think of were totally self-serving: Cobb,Speaker and Wood betting, the Black Sox. And while yes, for PED users it was about stats, stats ultimately mean more money. Also, I think people forget that many PED users were doing it as minor leaguers, just so they could make it to the majors�.at the expense of clean minor leaguers who, as a result, had just one more obstacle (steroid users) to get by. It has always been about money, but PED users got some glory from their cheating as well.

rats60 · #6 01-08-2015, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Rats60,

They took greenies until at least 2004. That is 34 years after they were illegal. In 2007, Eric Chavez wondered what the replacement would be, because he didn't think players could go without them for a season. I hesitate to call you an idiot, but you are clearly clueless about the legality of amphetamines or their effect.

You want to compare Mantle and Mays taking greenies with Bonds taking steroids aND you call me clueless? You are the definition of clueless. Those guys were retired long before greenies were outlawed. If you have evidence of players from the 80s forward post it. You'll get no argument from me. However, you posts are extremely ignorant. To call me names just proves that. How about sticking to facts instead of resorting to personal attacks?

EvilKing00 · #7 01-08-2015, 10:06 AM

cheating is cheating - if its coke, (YES COKE will enhance performance as long as its not over done), speed, greenies, steroids, hgh, corking bats, scuffing balls, etc, etc - how one of these effects mantle and another effects bonds or mays or perry, its all ENHANSING your performance through means that aren't your own. (TJ surgery is also a topic we can get into) but since the inception of the game players cheat and will continue to do so.

Best of their era should get in the HOF IMO - do we know if Thomas didn't use hgh? was he tested every day? every week? did Nolan ryan do steroids? do we only punish the ones we catch? or the ones we suspect too? What about the ones that did it but got away with it?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Whats	daves_resale_shop	Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)	0	08-19-2014 05:32 AM
My Art history, Cognitive Science, Philosophy Blog & Facebook page	drcy	WaterCooler Talk- Off Topics	2	07-11-2014 03:27 AM
SGC...whats going on?	cubsfan-budman	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	3	02-25-2013 10:54 AM
ebay bidding philosophy and doubts	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	35	06-13-2007 02:57 PM
Whats A Guy To Do?	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	9	06-27-2006 11:04 AM