Black Sox Memorabilia Up For Auction

[Runscott]

My last post was to point out one potential issue and see what others might have to say about it. I am no expert on any of the players' signatures that are on this ball. I read the letters that accompanied it, expecting to see something about possible tracing or repair to some areas that affected signatures - with all the shellac, chipping and white paint splatter, I don't think 'modified' areas of some signatures would be unexpected.

edited to add: Anyone who reads my posts regarding memorabilia knows that I have the utmost respect for Ken's thoroughness in id'ing game-used items (photo-matching, etc.). If you take a look at the COA's he has provided for this auction, you will note that both the JSA and PSA letters have December dates - Ken obviously thought this item important enough to have both of the major authentication companies take fresh looks at it.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by Runscott

edited to add: Anyone who reads my posts regarding memorabilia knows that I have the utmost respect for Ken's thoroughness in id'ing game-used items (photo-matching, etc.). If you take a look at the COA's he has provided for this auction, you will note that both the JSA and PSA letters have December dates - Ken obviously thought this item important enough to have both of the major authentication companies take fresh looks at it.

Excellent point. At first I was going to lambaste the item, but saw that it is a Goldin auction...I know Ken performs due diligence.

[khkco4bls]

David you say it's garbage give a reason why. how is it that you possibly forge a ball like that

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

David you say it's garbage give a reason why. how is it that you possibly forge a ball like that

Oh boy here we go again

[djson1]

I saw this ball in the auction too and thought it was suspect. I understand what Ken is explaining, but as another poster mentioned, some of the skills these forgers are capable of are beyond what you might expect. Plus, as many have stated already, I always thought Joe Jackson didn't really know how to sign his name in cursive, particularly during his playing days. Weren't his earlier signatures (if any) in simple print?

[Runscott]

I'm not knocking Ken, as all auction houses handle things the same way (if PSA and/or JSA like it, then we like it and the bidders who don't read Net54 will like it), but Shelly's point is significant. For a ball this important, I would like to see the AH's tell the consignor: "okay, but it goes through physical testing first. It's going to cost you $3,000-5,000 which you eat either way. If it fails, you keep the ball."

There are plenty of places on a ball like this that could absorb a one-time physical testing (with all the chipping, etc), and it would put all doubts to rest. Besides, some day someone will have it tested and what if it fails? That's no good for any auction house that has ever auctioned it, or for PSA and JSA.

Regarding the 'Risberg/Risbirg' issue, there aren't too many exemplars, but I did find a couple where I could see his 'e' leaning toward looking like an un-dotted 'i', and the dot on the ball's 'i' could definitely be ink splatter.

[David Atkatz]

Joe Jackson could write his name--in cursive--during his ML playing career. There are many examples--including legal documents.

I may have been a bit too hasty calling the ball "garbage." That being said, though, I have extremely strong reservations about the ball's authenticity. How many times the ball has been auctioned previously does not strike me as relevant.

[Econteachert205]

It is beyond my abilities to authenticate this piece, so I defer. In my opinion given the amount it would sell for it is not an attractive piece. All I can think about is the opportunity cost of what could be bought instead. Still an ultra tough and cool piece, just not my cup of tea.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Joe Jackson could write his name--in cursive--during his ML playing career. There are many examples--including legal documents.

Here are five from the PSA site. Authenticating a Jackson signature is going to be difficult. With super-rare ones like this, I try to find an example that the one in question might have been copied from - forgers don't guess if it's avoidable. Given that Jackson didn't sign much, the odds of him doing a group of letters exactly alike, more than once, seems very low.

[David Atkatz]

Actually Scott, in the examples you post, his letter formations are quite consistent. (Including the Goldin ball.)

[Econteachert205]

Scott nice job putting those together. The example underneath the goldin ball is super close in style.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Actually Scott, in the examples you post, his letter formations are quite consistent. (Including the Goldin ball.)

I agree - I was talking about exact groupings of letters, not consistent letter formations. That might sound like splitting hairs, but I've seen autographs where you could actually locate the specific physical signature example that the forger had used to create his copy.