Trimming - How common?

JollyElm · #1 01-17-2015, 04:28 AM

A couple of months ago I bought a card off of ebay that seemed like it could be trimmed. So before I pulled the trigger, I sent the seller a simple question asking if the card measured out correctly. He replied that he measured it himself and it was perfect. When I received the card, it was trimmed both ways, top to bottom AND side to side. That's why it didn't look so blatant on screen, because it was still rather proportional. I frickin' lost my mind on this idiot. He blatantly lied when he told me it measured out perfectly and he had the f_cking nerve to call me a liar to boot. That I was trying to rip him off and get this measly $5 card for free. I opened a case on ebay and provided them with a picture of the card atop a ruler along with his reply to me stating the card measured out correctly and it took ebay like 7 minutes to find in my favor and refund my money.

It may be too late for you to do the same thing, because a lot of time has elapsed, but if the seller refuses to give you a refund, you should definitely get on the phone with ebay and see if they will help.

Good luck!

a761506 · #2 01-17-2015, 03:21 PM

The hobby is littered with unscrupulous people trying to make a quick buck, there are plenty of them. As collectors, it is up to us to decide how much risk we're willing to take. If you buy raw cards, you know in advance you are taking a risk that the card may have been altered. You were able to purchase the card for less than you'd have paid for a PSA graded version of the card in similar condition. You knew this prior to buying the card, for you easily could have purchased the Musial card already in a PSA holder in similar condition to the one you bought, you would have just paid a premium for it.

So, in my opinion, as a buyer in the wild-wild-west that is eBay, if you're buying raw cards off eBay and you receive a card you believe is trimmed... caveat emptor. And quite honestly, that's how it should be to provide even greater value and acceptance of PSA graded cards.

Who knows if the seller even knew it was trimmed, and if indeed it is, if they trimmed it themselves? While your Musial looks blatantly short, it's difficult to figure out who to point fingers at, so I think the easiest person to point at in such situations is right in the mirror.

Econteachert205 · #3 01-17-2015, 03:30 PM

Because trimming was so common for so many years many cards are sold as good but were trimmed 2 or 3 owners ago. Of course some sellers are also just unscrupulous. As previously stated thanks to the tpg s there is less trimming going on right now, but I'm always wary of buying raw high end cards and check feedback and reputations. I also measure cards as soon as I get them just to be safe. Last time I got burnt was on a bazooka atg cobb because it was an unfamiliar issue size to me. It happens to most of us at one pointer another.

refz · #4 01-17-2015, 03:42 PM

I see serious buyers with jewler loops and scale rules. Question everything.

STL1944 · #5 01-17-2015, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a761506

The hobby is littered with unscrupulous people trying to make a quick buck, there are plenty of them. As collectors, it is up to us to decide how much risk we're willing to take. If you buy raw cards, you know in advance you are taking a risk that the card may have been altered. You were able to purchase the card for less than you'd have paid for a PSA graded version of the card in similar condition. You knew this prior to buying the card, for you easily could have purchased the Musial card already in a PSA holder in similar condition to the one you bought, you would have just paid a premium for it.

So, in my opinion, as a buyer in the wild-wild-west that is eBay, if you're buying raw cards off eBay and you receive a card you believe is trimmed... caveat emptor. And quite honestly, that's how it should be to provide even greater value and acceptance of PSA graded cards.

Who knows if the seller even knew it was trimmed, and if indeed it is, if they trimmed it themselves? While your Musial looks blatantly short, it's difficult to figure out who to point fingers at, so I think the easiest person to point at in such situations is right in the mirror.

Thank you for the thoughts.... I take responsibility for my naivet�...

mybestbretts · #6 01-17-2015, 07:19 PM

I have cards that I have owned for 25 or 30 years that I sent in to be graded
and found out that had been altered ,trimmed, colored, etc. I no longer buy expensive cards ungraded. I have one that measures right, is straight and I can't see where it was trimmed, but its come back twice. I broke it out of
a CTA case (remember them), so don't trust any grading company either.

glynparson · #7 01-19-2015, 02:33 PM

Can not honestly compare CTA to PSA or SGC. It is like expecting a yugo to perform as well as a Porsche or BMW. All companies have bad cards in their holders you just need to really worry about the ones where everything seems bad.

vintagetoppsguy · #8 01-19-2015, 03:20 PM

Having owned many '53 Bowman, I can tell you that there is definitely size variations in that set. Just because it's short does not mean it's trimmed. I would guess that it's not trimmed. Send it in.

the 'stache · #9 01-26-2015, 04:24 PM

Jim, I am slowly collecting the '53 Bowman set in mid grade range (just the color cards, I'll eventually do the b&w because I want to complete the year, but those are quite a way down my "to do" list). So while I do not have a lot of them yet, I've handled enough to know there is some variance in size. It's not a large one, but I think what you're describing is well within the tolerance for that year. If you look at the number of '53 Bowman cards that are really off center, it shouldn't be surprising that there were some issues when the cards were cut.

Here's what I would do. Grab another '53 Bowman card, one that you feel comfortable using as a comparative point (preferably something graded). Get your trusty loupe, get a nice, bright led light, and look over the edges face on, and if not slabbed, side on, and then compare it to the card you have. The best way of defending yourself against trimming is not to measure alone (though that should be the first step), but to familiarize yourself with what a hand cut edge looks liked compared to a factory cut edge.

Get a straight edge. Do any if the edges look "wavy" compared to it? That's an indication that somebody may have taken an x-acto blade to it. It's not a guarantee, mind you, but it's a warning sign in a post WW II issued card to me.

Compare the cut of the control card to yours. When you look at it flat on, the card's edges should appear uniform. If there is a noticeable difference, check the other edges of the card against the control card.

I look at a card like a defense attorney looking to establish reasonable doubt. Any one factor alone might not by itself be proof of trimming. A short card could just be a factory miscut. But a short card with a wavy edge that looks different under a loupe, especially from the side view...yeah, that puppy would go back.

Whenever you're spending that kind of money (and as somebody who is actively shopping the Musial card in question, I know what it costs), you need to examine the card exhaustively, especially if you are buying ungraded. I feel comfortable with the set, but I still wouldn't buy a Musial, a Reese, Mantle, BBM, or a Snider, ungraded unless it's someone I have done business with in the past that really knows their stuff.

Please let us know what you decide to do, and if you send it in, what you get back. Good luck!

jchcollins · #10 01-19-2015, 09:56 PM

I used to think it was ridiculous to have to seek out a card in a reputable graded holder even for mid or lesser-grade stuff, but if you are going for the pricier items and cannot hold the card in your hands before buying it, it's a prudent step. I once disgustedly got rid of a '55 Topps Clemente RC a week or so after purchasing it because something just looked odd about it and sure enough when I measured, it came up just a fraction short. On the other hand with grading you never can tell. I once had a beautiful E-90 Dockman Cy Young card that I sold online as trimmed because it clearly measured short by specs in the book. Less than 6 months later I saw the exact same card (I knew it was the one I had by the centering and other attributes) for sale under the flag of a well-known dealer on eBay, slabbed in a PSA 5 case. I could have kicked myself, but I guess sometimes in any business it's not what you know, but...

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