Greatest quarterback you have seen?

[nolemmings]

Unitas.

[bigtrain]

I have been watching NFL (and AFL) football for over 50 years. For me the discussion begins and ends with Joe Montana.

[bbcard1]

I am clearly not so out of touch as to represent him as one of the greatest of all time, but had it not been for injuries he might have been. Chad Pennington had a pop-gun arm but a head for the game like very few others. I watched him from the time he was a skinny freshman who was forced into duty when three quarterbacks in front of him were injured. As a pro, I think him taking the Dolphins to the playoffs after the Jets unceremoniously dumped him for Farve was one of the better FUs in pro football history. Have met him on numerous occasions and he is a thoroughly admirable human being.

[D.P.Johnson]

Montana hands-down...The way he would walk up to the line of scrimmage while analyzing the defense and then call an audible was absolute genius...

[D. Bergin]

No, he never won a Super Bowl, but the best pure QB I ever saw was Marino. Never had a ton to work with, never paired with an elite level RB or running game that I can recall and his best receivers were tiny men. Despite this, he put up some mind boggling numbers in an era when the defensive rules were much different then they are now.

All respect to anybody who says Montana, Brady, Manning, Unitas, Steve Young.........as I can see those arguments to.

[Runscott]

Marino in his prime was about as good as anyone.

My favorites to watch were Staubach and Tarkenton. Montana and Marino were almost too perfect to be enjoyable.

[HRBAKER]

No such beast, very dependent on era/rules.
Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Montana, Manning, Brady all in a big group with some others.

There's also a very big championship winner vs. stat accumulator component as well.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

No such beast, very dependent on era/rules.
Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Montana, Manning, Brady all in a big group with some others.

There's also a very big championship winner vs. stat accumulator component as well.

Agreed that it's impossible to determine who the greatest ever was, because of the reasons you and Steve have pointed out, but I didn't ask that - I asked:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Who do you think is the greatest quarterback out of the ones you've seen?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

No, he never won a Super Bowl, but the best pure QB I ever saw was Marino. Never had a ton to work with, never paired with an elite level RB or running game that I can recall and his best receivers were tiny men. Despite this, he put up some mind boggling numbers in an era when the defensive rules were much different then they are now.

All respect to anybody who says Montana, Brady, Manning, Unitas, Steve Young.........as I can see those arguments to.

This too is a great point by Dave. As far as a pure passer, hard to go against Marino....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

This too is a great point by Dave. As far as a pure passer, hard to go against Marino....

I can remember watching Marino and being positive that the other team didn't have a chance - when he was on, he was perfect. The Superbowl ring means nothing to me in terms of evaluating an individual's greatness - it certainly doesn't mean Marino was a choker, and it also doesn't mean that he couldn't have taken his team all the way if he had the kind of defense to go with his offense.

Remember, people were saying the same things about Elway, then he won two when he was near retirement, and he all of a sudden was one of the greatest ever. He arguably wasn't even in his prime when he won the Superbowls.

[Tabe]

For me, right now the best I've ever seen is Steve Young. Super-accurate, strong arm arm, and could run. Much more of a complete package than Montana or Marino.

After that, probably Brady/Montana (tie).

When it's all said and done, though, the best might be Aaron Rodgers. More of a complete package than Brady/Montana/Marino (since he can run) and already a long string of dazzling seasons.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Montana hands-down...The way he would walk up to the line of scrimmage while analyzing the defense and then call an audible was absolute genius...

Plus 1 big time. 4 for 4 in Super Bowls, I'll take this guy...

[HappyJack41]

Nobody and I mean NOBODY will ever touch Joe Cool. Some say "well yeah but Brady had to do it in the salary cap area!".....who gives a $hit!, Montana actually had to play against REAL defenses who were actually allowed to play defense and weren't neutered so that the offense always has the advantage as it has been in this league for 15 years now.

Brady has never and will never know what it's like to play against defenses allowed to head hunt on him or jam the living crap out of his receivers on every single play all the way up the field. If he did, he wouldn't have 3 Super Bowls with a 4th trophy gift wrapped last night. And he wouldn't have the stats that he's been able to put up while being pampered by this league for his entire career (ESPECIALLY for the last 8 years under Kraft's butt buddy GODell)

[EvilKing00]

top 6 in order IMO - taking into account stats, teams the played for, over all talent and EVERYTHING in general


Manning
Elway
marino
montana
Johnny u
brady

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by HappyJack41

Nobody and I mean NOBODY will ever touch Joe Cool. Some say "well yeah but Brady had to do it in the salary cap area!".....who gives a $hit!,

Well, you should, because it's a valid point. Keeping a great team together today is much more difficult than it was in Montana's day.

Think Bradshaw wins four Super Bowls in the salary cap era? No way. He doesn't have Swann, Stallworth, Franco Harris, that offensive line, and a defense with Mean Joe Green, Jack Ham, Jack Lambert, L.C. Greenwood, etc in the cap era. Other teams start offering money the Steelers can't compete with. The team falls apart.

The same thing would have happened to Montana. Rice was otherworldly. As I said before, the second best receiver to ever play the game, and the greatest in modern football. The Niners would have kept Montana and Rice. That means they lose the complimentary pieces like Tom Rathman, Roger Craig, John Taylor, etc. They don't keep that offense together. Montana is having to get used to new young guys much more often. I'm not saying that Montana isn't able to develop great chemistry with those new receivers, but it would take a while.

[HRBAKER]

Ask yourself how many of the offensive players that Brady has played with (for any extended period time) will make it to Canton. Not the in-and-outs like Randy Moss - I mean a sustained period of time - it ain't many I can think of. Sort of puts his skill in perspective for me.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Ask yourself how many of the offensive players that Brady has played with (for any extended period time) will make it to Canton. Not the in-and-outs like Randy Moss - I mean a sustained period of time - it ain't many I can think of. Sort of puts his skill in perspective for me.

I honestly can't think of a single skill player, aside from Moss that is a HOFer. On this team, Edelman is a very very good slot guy, but I think Gronk is the only pass catcher/skill man that even has a shot at the HOF. I think he'd still need 5-6 more years at peak production to have a shot.

He also hasn't had many All Pro or Pro Bowl caliber guys either. I'm not gonna dig through the past 15 years' worth of rosters right now, but just thinking back, the best skill guys I remember (Pro Bowl worthy or close) were Troy Brown, Corey Dillon, Wes Welker, BenJarvus Green Ellis, Edelman, Hernandez, Branch (barely), Blount (barely)

Others- Jermaine Wiggins, Ben Watson, Reche Caldwell, Stevan Ridley, David Patten, Givens, Antowaine Smith, Woodhead, Maroney, LaFell, etc were solid producers but not league stars.

Almost no one jumps out at you, yet he's amassed some amazing stats and 4 rings. One thing the Pats have done so effectively is to identify individuals' strengths and put them in, or even create, rolls that are ideal for them. I can't think of another team where each guy seems to fill his specific role so well, and these roles really accentuates their skills.. sorta like the NFL's Spurs. Brady as a QB has been able to take full advantage of these players' talents/roles and should be credited for doing this so effectively.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Ask yourself how many of the offensive players that Brady has played with (for any extended period time) will make it to Canton. Not the in-and-outs like Randy Moss - I mean a sustained period of time - it ain't many I can think of. Sort of puts his skill in perspective for me.

Welker, Gronk and Moss are as good any other qb has had. They are all potential hofers. Montana had Rice, that's it. Clark or Taylor weren't as good as those guys and Montana won 2 without Rice. Manning had Harrison who is struggling to make the hof. Wayne sucks, all he did is quit on his route costing Manning his 2nd Super Bowl. He does have Welker helping extend his career. Marino, Elway and Favre had little to help them.

Brady also had the greatest kicker of all time. How many does he win without him? He has had great defenses on the first 3 and he knew what defense the other team was in. I'm still waiting for Brady to win something without cheating. Just look at his playoff record between Spygate and Deflategate and that tells you what you need to know about him. He's the Barry Bonds of the NFL.

[TUM301]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Ask yourself how many of the offensive players that Brady has played with (for any extended period time) will make it to Canton. Not the in-and-outs like Randy Moss - I mean a sustained period of time - it ain't many I can think of. Sort of puts his skill in perspective for me.

This makes the most sense to me. Hard to come up with a "greatest" of all time but it seems the so-called experts and many football fans in the Brady camp refer to the evolving players and the 14 season period of excellence. Every "greatest" QB or team for that matter has warts if we really want to start digging, every one. Unlike baseball, which I feel has stayed relatively the same for the last 2 generations, football has gone through dramatic changes. At best we can come up with the "greatest" for different eras. Baugh,Unitas, Roger S, Bradshaw, Montana, and Brady. One item I do agree with is that you have had to have played big, I E carry a S Bowl team, to be considered the greatest of your era. Pitchers and catchers less than 2 weeks !!!