Rare Shoeless Joe Jackson autograph

[Runscott]

A few more thoughts on the Matty. Mathewson had some variance in his signature, and some of the variants were slow and deliberate, like the one on this photo - the example we are looking at would be the easiest Matty style to forge. If you look at check examples from the 1920's, you'll see a few that are very slow and plodding like this. Not so much with other authentic signatures from the ca. 1911 period - they are generally signed quickly and confidently.

Here are two signatures with 'Yours Truly', from two different periods, that were both signed quickly and confidently - the flow is perfect. Draw your own conclusions.

[drcy]

There is a straight foreword standard test for determining how long writing has been on the paper. It's done by taking a small sample and determining how dried out is the ink by timing how long it takes to dissolve in solvent. It takes longer to dissolve the longer the writing has been on the paper and a short time if the writing is recent. Even years after the writing, the ink continues to dry out. Many forgeries have been identified using this method.

The other method involves identifying the specific chemicals and substances in the ink. That's the test that would be expensive.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

A few more thoughts on the Matty. Mathewson had some variance in his signature, and some of the variants were slow and deliberate, like the one on this photo - the example we are looking at would be the easiest Matty style to forge. If you look at check examples from the 1920's, you'll see a few that are very slow and plodding like this. Not so much with other authentic signatures from the ca. 1911 period - they are generally signed quickly and confidently.

Here are two signatures with 'Yours Truly', from two different periods, that were both signed quickly and confidently - the flow is perfect. Draw your own conclusions.

Thanks for posting these, Scott. The hell with flow--compare the photo to these, and it's obvious that not a single letter formation is correct.

The photo is rubbish.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Thanks for posting these, Scott. The hell with flow--compare the photo to these, and it's obvious that not a single letter formation is correct.

The photo is rubbish.

The problem is that some will compare these autographs, letter for letter, with the one on the photo, and they will think they are similar, not realizing that if you attempted to copy the two examples I provided, the hesitation in the flow of your writing would yield something similar to what's on the photograph. So I am abandoning that angle of discussion.

Imagine yourself doing the drunk field test while you are stone-cold sober, versus when you are fighting to stay out of jail. That would be the second two examples versus the one on the photo.

[D. Bergin]

For some reason I was thinking Matty passed away sooner then he did. I guess he could have signed that format of photo near the end of his life.

I don't think there's any way those photos were signed in 1911, but early to mid-20's could be a possibility, if they are legit.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

For some reason I was thinking Matty passed away sooner then he did. I guess he could have signed that format of photo near the end of his life.

I don't think there's any way those photos were signed in 1911, but early to mid-20's could be a possibility, if they are legit.

It is similar to slowly-written checks from the 1920's, but the s-o connection crushes that possibility - not even vaguely like anything Mathewson ever did. Look at a few examples by googling 'Mathewson signed check'. You will find examples that look similar to this one and you will see what I'm talking about.

[jad22]

Good discussion.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by jad22

Good discussion.

With no resolve

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by shelly

With no resolve

oh, there's a resolve Shells...the Joe Jackson in the original post is a dime store phony, IMHO. If it's too good to be true it usually is. I respect the opinions of members here who have forgot more than I will ever know.

The story is ludicrous with this BARN FIND crap. That's where the story goes south for me...at the beginning. Honestly, the story is ridiculous, PURE AND SIMPLE. Just because the knuckle dragging Neanderthals at PSA say it's so, doesn't mean JACK. Their reputation is falling like crude oil, and this fiasco will only add to it.

Somebody is about ready to get taken behind the BARN and beaten like a red -headed step child.

[Klrdds]

From Chuck's post :"The story is ludicrous with this BARN FIND crap. That's where the story goes south for me...at the beginning. Honestly, the story is ridiculous, PURE AND SIMPLE. Just because the knuckle dragging Neanderthals at PSA say it's so, doesn't mean JACK. Their reputation is falling like crude oil, and this fiasco will only add to it."

Chuck I agree with you totally. My only exception is concerning their reputation falling. I believe it has fallen, is falling and will continue to fall amongst the knowledgeable collectors , such as those on this site, but I still believe that the unknowledgeable collector, the novice collector, and the easily persuaded or impressed collector will still be subject to their "impressive" credentials and slick LOA to guide them in their purchasing experience whether good or , mostly bad.

[shelly]

I think the Joe has become the new I found it autograph of the year.