Altered high grade E93s in Mile High?

Peter_Spaeth · #1 07-10-2015, 08:46 AM

Mile High clearly discloses that some lots have reserves. So if (and I have no idea) there was a reserve and the card did not meet it there is no issue.

d) Minimum Bids- Each and every lot within the auction does have a minimum bid designated in both the catalog as well as online. A very few of the lots in the auction have a reserve price (please note the vast majority of the lots within the auction do not have a reserve price) A reserve price is the confidential minimum price that a consignor will accept before they will sell the material, this means that a bid of equal or greater than the confidential reserve must be placed for a succesful bid to be accepted on that lot. MHCC may implement this reserve by bidding on behalf of the consignor and may place a bid up to the amount of the reserve, by placing succesive bids if necessary. In the limited instances where MHCC has a financial interest in a lot beyond our commision we may place a bid to protect our financial interest. Reserves when in place will be pre-determined and set within the auction software prior to the start of the auction. Again, please note the vast majority of the lots in every auction will be offered without a confidential reserve in place. For all items in the auction (unless an item is withdrawn during the auction)without a reserve they will be sold to the highest bidder at or above the minimum bid.

ullmandds · #2 07-10-2015, 09:07 AM

Another Major AH "protecting" their best interests by bidding on their own lots.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 07-10-2015, 09:20 AM

If it's disclosed, there is no fraud. People can make an informed decision whether they want to bid or not, knowing there is the potential for the AH to bid up to the reserve. It would still be better, in my view, just to put the reserve as the opening bid, but AHs don't seem to ever want to do that.

I suppose one could also argue that this style of auction can create some pricing misinformation, for lots that didn't meet reserve, but I don't see that as a legal issue.

ullmandds · #4 07-10-2015, 09:28 AM

So the way I'm reading that disclaimer...potentially...A consigner could negotiate a deal with said AH where in exchange for their consignment...the AH will receive buyer fees + for example...1% of the selling price as incentive for the AH to set a large reserve and help bid the lots up past that point.

Sounds like a good deal for the consigner to me!!!!

smtjoy · #5 07-10-2015, 11:39 AM

There was a high profile card I really wanted in their auction but withheld bidding because their policy scares me away.

IMO there is a pretty fine line between protecting interest.....and shilling, just disclosure it seems.

Beastmode · #6 07-10-2015, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smtjoy

There was a high profile card I really wanted in their auction but withheld bidding because their policy scares me away.

IMO there is a pretty fine line between protecting interest.....and shilling, just disclosure it seems.

This. The Mile High Disclaimer should cause concern for bidders, not sure why more folks don't read the fine print of these AH's.

This thread is choke full of good stuff. Can we unwind this a little and educate me on how this works:

1.) Does PSA (TPG's) currently use any equipment during the grading process to detect any kind of chemical modification to a card; (Yes, don't know, No? If I'm buying +$5k pre-war cards, wouldn't this be good information.

2.) If PSA offered another level of grading service that detected the slightest bit of chemical alteration; and then slabbed the cards that passed with a distinguishing cert number for the grade (CU; Chemically Unaltered), would that be beneficial or detrimental to the hobby? I do not believe "authentic" answers this question.

The big elephant in this thread; when does TPG technology become sophisticated enough that EXISTING SLABBED cards from (pre-war?) need to be resubmitted to quell the buyers. That day is coming, and buyers will eventually determine that timeframe.

OK, my first post here....that was easy.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 07-10-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastmode

This. The Mile High Disclaimer should cause concern for bidders, not sure why more folks don't read the fine print of these AH's.

This thread is choke full of good stuff. Can we unwind this a little and educate me on how this works:

1.) Does PSA (TPG's) currently use any equipment during the grading process to detect any kind of chemical modification to a card; (Yes, don't know, No? If I'm buying +$5k pre-war cards, wouldn't this be good information.

2.) If PSA offered another level of grading service that detected the slightest bit of chemical alteration; and then slabbed the cards that passed with a distinguishing cert number for the grade (CU; Chemically Unaltered), would that be beneficial or detrimental to the hobby? I do not believe "authentic" answers this question.

The big elephant in this thread; when does TPG technology become sophisticated enough that EXISTING SLABBED cards from (pre-war?) need to be resubmitted to quell the buyers. That day is coming, and buyers will eventually determine that timeframe.

OK, my first post here....that was easy.

I am not sure why the MH disclosure is an issue. It seemed clear enough to me. Very similar, I think, to Heritage's rules but I have not done a side by side. I think there are others as well. If you don't like it, you don't have to bid, I think all a bidder can ask is to know the rules and not to have stuff going on out of sight. If an AH doesn't misrepresent anything, and doesn't conceal anything material, it seems to me there is no cause for complaint.

As for TPGs, their fees really are quite low, and you get what you pay for. I doubt they will offer a more thorough review for a premium because that would tend to undermine the integrity of their regular review. But I don't know.

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