Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hey, don't blame me for holding up a mirror to your face and forcing you to eat your own words. You complain about fraud in the hobby and yet when push comes to shove you've defended Mastro and Allen for years. For years. There's not a single word I've ever said about Mastro or Allen that is not the truth and we both know it.

I* am going to leave it alone Jeff. I am not defending anyone. I wasn't writing a letter before your badgering of me, or after the few trinkets given to me (which I won't have anymore after today). Nothing swayed me ..... I have confidence in the judge making a good decision. I am sorry you don't.

And absolutely both of those guys will get what's coming to them. Restitution should have been a part of each plea...for that part I think it was unfair.

and lastly, your quoting me is not a big deal. I WAS going to write a letter at one time but changed my mind due to several factors, not just Nash....I hope I am allowed to change my mind?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

I* am going to leave it alone Jeff. I am not defending anyone. I wasn't writing a letter before your badgering of me, or after the few trinkets given to me (which I won't have anymore after today). Nothing swayed me ..... I have confidence in the judge making a good decision. I am sorry you don't.

I have tremendous confidence in the judge making the right decision. But we as victims -- yes, you're a victim -- can submit information to the judge so that he has a better understanding of who Bill Mastro is. The judge doesn't know Mastro and Allen the way his victims do. We complain on Net 54 constantly about being defrauded, here's the one chance we all have to be heard and put our money where our mouths are.

[Leon]

I venture to guess I do more than 99.9% of the people in the hobby (you are right there too) to weed out fraud. I can't stand it. Not sure if you have ever seen where I have said, "if you are doing something bad in the hobby I will be your worst friend", but I have said it many times. I have helped numerous authorities to work fraud cases in the hobby....Secret Service, Dept. Of Homeland Security, Postal Agents, Postal Inspectors, local authorities etc.....for various reasons I am not writing this one letter.....that is it.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I have tremendous confidence in the judge making the right decision. But we as victims -- yes, you're a victim -- can submit information to the judge so that he has a better understanding of who Bill Mastro is. The judge doesn't know Mastro and Allen the way his victims do. We complain on Net 54 constantly about being defrauded, here's the one chance we all have to be heard and put our money where our mouths are.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

I venture to guess I do more than 99.9% of the people in the hobby (you are right there too) to weed out fraud. I can't stand it. Not sure if you have ever seen where I have said, "if you are doing something bad in the hobby I will be your worst friend", but I have said it many times. I have helped numerous authorities to work fraud cases in the hobby....Secret Service, Dept. Of Homeland Security, Postal Agents, Postal Inspectors, local authorities etc.....for various reasons I am not writing this one letter.....that is it.

Leon, you received a gift from the biggest fraud the hobby has ever known and you said it "was appreciated." And you made it clear on this thread that you were considering writing a letter in SUPPORT of Mastro. Doesn't sound like you're quite his "worst friend."

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Leon, you received a gift from the biggest fraud the hobby has ever known and you said it "was appreciated." And you made it clear on this thread that you were considering writing a letter in SUPPORT of Mastro. Doesn't sound like you're quite his "worst friend."

As I said, I changed my mind. I suppose people can do that, right? I probably am not his worst friend. Maybe you are? I can't stand what he did but I can also separate what someone does from who they are. Those guys will pay for what they did. My letter, one way or the other, isn't going to change the plea deals. Did you write a letter?

And yes, I said it was appreciated but in retrospect, maybe not so much. That is why after today the few little things he sent I will no longer have.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

As I said, I changed my mind. I suppose people can do that, right? I probably am not his worst friend. Maybe you are? I can't stand what he did but I can also separate what someone does from who they are. Those guys will pay for what they did. My letter, one way or the other, isn't going to change the plea deals. Did you write a letter?

And yes, I said it was appreciated but in retrospect, maybe not so much. That is why after today the few little things he sent I will no longer have.

Of course I'm writing a letter. And no one has ever said that writing a letter will change their plea deals. Where did you get that from? The judge has discretion at sentencing and many factors come into play including character letters about the defendant. You can be sure Bill will have dozens if not hundreds of letter supporting him and not discussing his fraud.

Lastly, of course people can change their minds. I've always appreciated how you changed your mind about Mike O'Keeffe, the NY Daily News reporter who you and others blasted for his purportedly unfair coverage of the Mastro fraud. And how you changed your mind about me after we bickered constantly out here years ago when I was loudly critical of Mastro and Allen -- and I was being roundly criticized for it.

And lastly, I'm not Bill Mastro's worst friend -- I was never his friend at all. Just his victim.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Of course I'm writing a letter. And no one has ever said that writing a letter will change their plea deals. Where did you get that from? The judge has discretion at sentencing and many factors come into play including character letters about the defendant. You can be sure Bill will have dozens if not hundreds of letter supporting him and not discussing his fraud.

Lastly, of course people can change their minds. I've always appreciated how you changed your mind about Mike O'Keeffe, the NY Daily News reporter who you and others blasted for his purportedly unfair coverage of the Mastro fraud. And how you changed your mind about me after we bickered constantly out here years ago when I was loudly critical of Mastro and Allen -- and I was being roundly criticized for it.

And lastly, I'm not Bill Mastro's worst friend -- I was never his friend at all. Just his victim.

and I always appreciate how half your clients are card doctors...but then that is how you make your money. The more bad people in the hobby the more you make. Do you give out business cards after these threads? Since I haven't done anything wrong in the hobby I guess I don't need a business card.

[aaron1050]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Lastly, of course people can change their minds. I've always appreciated how you changed your mind about Mike O'Keeffe, the NY Daily News reporter who you and others blasted for his purportedly unfair coverage of the Mastro fraud. And how you changed your mind about me after we bickered constantly out here years ago when I was loudly critical of Mastro and Allen -- and I was being roundly criticized for it.

Hey, Leon even reached out and unbanned me! That's good mind-changing.

In all seriousness, I think he's shown real growth in the last seven or eight years in terms of his ability to acknowledge the mountain of evidence (and common sense) against the Mastro/Legendary guys as sufficient to conclude they were crooks, but at the same time he obviously hits the same wall of mental disconnect (separate a person from their actions?) that drove him to so ferociously defend those guys in the first place.

Part of it, I would imagine, is personal relationships and part of it may be some psychological reasons that we'll never understand that contribute to a sort of selective blind spot that causes him to make seemingly incompatible and completely contradictory conclusions while he tried to overlook or explain away or compartmentalize they're bad deeds. I will agree though that even after all of this, it's like one step forward two steps backward to see that Leon was actually considering writing a letter in support of Mastro. Growth yes, but that's just crazy at this point in time (these guys are convicts now!) and goes to the point that we will never understand the psychology here and what drives the reasoning for his need to absolve these guys.

As far as the appropriateness of the penalties, I'm assuming that Mastro was completely cooperative with the feds, and that should warrant some leniency, but I think 7-10 years would have been more appropriate, not 30 months. And understanding just how hard it would be to determine and then distribute a restitution figure, it still would have been appropriate to add a $3M - $5M flat figure as additional punishment.

Otherwise, I'm just happy that these guys were proven to be the frauds they are and so overwhelmingly so -- by federal convictions, plea deals, and real jail time. It should close the books on a very dark episode in the hobby's history when so many were the unknowing victims of significant fraud that undercut what was supposed to be a "hobby".