OT: Greatest Living Four

[rats60]

Koufax
Mays
Aaron
Seaver

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by rats60

Koufax
Mays
Aaron
Seaver

Agreed

[chris6net]

Originally Posted by rats60

Koufax
Mays
Aaron
Seaver

This is my four!

[GregMitch34]

You want to leave Sandy off? He tossed a strike without even looking tonight in throwing out first pitch. He could probably sign as situational lefty today and have 1.20 era...

[Kenny Cole]

Koufax pitched the very first game I ever saw at Dodger Stadium. I was five and it was his last year. I have been a huge fan of his ever since.

[mark evans]

After Mays, lots of good answers for the other three.

[Mike (18colt)]

Aaron
Mays
Griffey, Jr.
Rose

I'd pick a pitcher, but couldn't decide between Maddux, Clemens, Seaver, Ryan, Koufax, Carlton, Gibson, Martinez, etc. Bonds also is problematic. I like Frank Robinson, but he may be the overrated underrated guy.

[toledo_mudhen]

I was pretty happy with the 4 that were chosen - Stirred lots of memories for me all in the matter of just a few minutes.....Awesome

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by rats60

Koufax
Mays
Aaron
Seaver

Agreed as well

[kgibson]

Aaron, Mays, Gibson, Ryan

[Edwolf1963]

Mike Blowers, Andy Stankewicz, Kiko Garcia, Mickey Klutz

Wait, sorry - wrong list ...

Mays
Aaron
Koufax
Nolan Ryan

[Beatles Guy]

Seventh game of the World Series, who do you pitch - Seaver, Ryan, Koufax or Gibson? I have to go Gibson.

[Jlighter]

Bench is not top 4 living, they had him there for the Reds fans, but I don't know why they didn't choose Frank Robinson.

Mays, Aaron, Koufax(I'm biased), Pedro

[celoknob]

Koufax had one of the best five year runs ever but if I was picking one pitcher I would definitely choose Randy Johnson, Maddux or Seaver as having greater careers.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by celoknob

Koufax had one of the best five year runs ever but if I was picking one pitcher I would definitely choose Randy Johnson, Maddux or Seaver as having greater careers.

I think it's tough to make this decision without having seen the players during their careers. I'm also biased towards Seaver as a Mets fan who grew up on him but also remember the long downside of his career -- which didn't exist for Koufax thus the strong memeories he left in fans' minds.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Bench is not top 4 living, they had him there for the Reds fans, but I don't know why they didn't choose Frank Robinson.

Mays, Aaron, Koufax(I'm biased), Pedro

Bench revolutionized the catcher's roll and made it an art form.

Aaron, Bench, Koufax, Mays - and Schmidt would have been my fifth.
.
.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Bench revolutionized the catcher's roll and made it an art form.

.

But that doesn't necessarily make him better. Without Richard Pryor there is no Eddie Murphy, but that doesn't make Pryor unimpeccably better. If this were a discussion of who contributed more to the game then this argument could be valid. With the word greatest we aren't left with subjective ambiguity like we are with the Hall of Fame or MVP Award.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

Seventh game of the World Series, who do you pitch - Seaver, Ryan, Koufax or Gibson? I have to go Gibson.

Definitely not Ryan. Tossup as to the others.

[ValKehl]

After Aaron, Koufax, and Mays, you could throw a dart at all the other players named in this thread and have the best living 4. Another possibility for the 4th player, whom I don't believe has yet been mentioned, is Mariano Rivera.
Val

[Peter_Spaeth]

There was nobody better for a 4 or maybe 5 year stretch, but Koufax's career doesn't touch Seaver, or Gibson, or Carlton, or Clemens, or Maddux.

[GregMitch34]

Can't believe all the Nolan Ryan picks. Way, way down the list. Look at the e.r.a., for one thing...

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There was nobody better for a 4 or maybe 5 year stretch, but Koufax's career doesn't touch Seaver, or Gibson, or Carlton, or Clemens, or Maddux.

Best four (or five) year stretch would be Pedro Martinez. Look it up, especially WAR. Also, Pedro had better career numbers in almost every category than Koufax.

Sandy Koufax is not even in the top 5 for pitchers.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

Seventh game of the World Series, who do you pitch - Seaver, Ryan, Koufax or Gibson? I have to go Gibson.

In 1965, Walter Alston had the choice to pitch a Hofer on full rest or pitch Koufax on 2 days rest in game 7. He chose Koufax and Koufax pitched his 2nd shutout in 3 games. I'd pitch Koufax over Gibson, but I wouldn't argue with anyone picking Gibby. The only 2 players with multiple World Series MVPS and the 2 best big game pitchers of the modern era, but Koufax's better post season era 0.95 to 1.89 makes the difference to me.

[tbob]

With the game on the line and a win is crucial, how can you go with anyone other than Bob Gibson? Too many collectors here never had a chance to see him pitch. Koufax was great, but in the BIG game, Gibson was the man.

My other 3: Mays, Aaron and Yogi. Berra was CLUTCH. Bench was great, Berra was better.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tbob

With the game on the line and a win is crucial, how can you go with anyone other than Bob Gibson? Too many collectors here never had a chance to see him pitch. Koufax was great, but in the BIG game, Gibson was the man.

My other 3: Mays, Aaron and Yogi. Berra was CLUTCH. Bench was great, Berra was better.

Koufax WS ERA 0.95. Gibson 1.89. Gibson had a better WL. I would call it even at best.

[aro13]

Bonds
Mays
Aaron
Schmidt, Henderson or Morgan

Pitchers
Seaver
Gibson
Clemens
Pedro

[kgibson]

Originally Posted by tbob

With the game on the line and a win is crucial, how can you go with anyone other than Bob Gibson? Too many collectors here never had a chance to see him pitch. Koufax was great, but in the BIG game, Gibson was the man.

Here's some Gibby World Series info. In his 9 games he was 7-2 with 5 consecutive victories. In those 9 games he started he pitched 8 complete games. The other game he pitched 8 innings then he was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 8th. And speaking of his hitting, in his 9 World Series games he hit 2 home runs. Tim McCarver said "Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn't score any runs."

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by kgibson

Here's some Gibby World Series info. In his 9 games he was 7-2 with 5 consecutive victories. In those 9 games he started he pitched 8 complete games. The other game he pitched 8 innings then he was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 8th. And speaking of his hitting, in his 9 World Series games he hit 2 home runs. Tim McCarver said "Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn't score any runs."

Very true and people sometimes forget Gibson's 1968 Game 7 loss was largely due to Curt Flood's misplayed fly ball. the outcome might have been different.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by kgibson

Here's some Gibby World Series info. In his 9 games he was 7-2 with 5 consecutive victories. In those 9 games he started he pitched 8 complete games. The other game he pitched 8 innings then he was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 8th. And speaking of his hitting, in his 9 World Series games he hit 2 home runs. Tim McCarver said "Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever saw. He always pitches when the other team doesn't score any runs."

He actually won 7 straight - his last 2 starts in 1964, all 3 in 1967, and the first 2 in 1968.

Fun stat: Bob Gibson wasn't knocked out of a single game in 1968. Every time he got pulled, it was for a pinch hitter.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

Seventh game of the World Series, who do you pitch - Seaver, Ryan, Koufax or Gibson? I have to go Gibson.

+1. Absolutely.