SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector

[1880nonsports]

you were joking right???? Countless examples of inept grading for all the companies - see the last Heritage auction with PSA 7's that have front and back paper loss.
The major TPG's do a decent job with regard to authenticity and more easily discernable faults. You're not submitting to some kind of crime lab - for the ten bucks no-one is taking out the micrometer or neutron scale. ANYONE can render an opinion about a "grade". Such grades really only matter in terms of commerce - buying and selling the commodity.
Historically PSA cards have been shown to bring higher prices on many issues. They were first, better advertised, and developed the wildly successful registry. With the passage of time SGC has taken over the larger share of the more niche-like 19th century market and made inroads in the "T" card market. I think they do a better job, the holders look nicer, they offer excellent customer service. That said - it's a personal preference thing - you align yourself with the company whose condition/grade parameters feel "right".

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

you were joking right???? Countless examples of inept grading for all the companies - see the last Heritage auction with PSA 7's that have front and back paper loss.
The major TPG's do a decent job with regard to authenticity and more easily discernable faults. You're not submitting to some kind of crime lab - for the ten bucks no-one is taking out the micrometer or neutron scale. ANYONE can render an opinion about a "grade". Such grades really only matter in terms of commerce - buying and selling the commodity.
Historically PSA cards have been shown to bring higher prices on many issues. They were first, better advertised, and developed the wildly successful registry. With the passage of time SGC has taken over the larger share of the more niche-like 19th century market and made inroads in the "T" card market. I think they do a better job, the holders look nicer, they offer excellent customer service. That said - it's a personal preference thing - you align yourself with the company whose condition/grade parameters feel "right".

right heres another 'sgc is better for prewar' it is what it is....PSA sells for more than SGC on a large scale.....theres always bad examples for each in terms of why a grade was given.....you can buy sgc cards cheaper for the same grade as psa.... which is fine for the people who want cards cheaper and who believe the card looks the same as the psa counterpart.....really no problem there....just don't expect to get the same money back as the psa counterpart ..it can happen from time to time of course..

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am not joking at all. Ask people who submit regularly (that is, people not getting favors or to put it more charitably benefits of the doubt, and I am sure there are some of those) and they will tell you that these days -- which is all I said in my post -- PSA is very strict with grades. I have seen numerous examples of this.

My observation is not at all contradicted by the fact that in its 24 year history PSA has overgraded many cards or graded many altered cards. Of course they have.

I have no doubt that if you took a cross section of mid to high grade cards with no paper loss or wrinkles, and had someone unknown to either company submit them, the PSA batch would grade lower in the aggregate. That is not a criticism of SGC, just an observation that the grading standards are not the same these days.

And putting up a single example of an overgraded PSA card to prove your point is really not a very good argument. I am talking about overall, in the aggregate, etc.

[Touch'EmAll]

Kevin, I looked on ebay at the last 4 sold 1955 Topps Aaron PSA 8's. They ranged from $1,366. to $1,654. The SGC 88 I bought in 2014 I paid $850. plus $18. shipping. Bad news is big difference between SGC 88 and PSA 8. Good news is I paid $850. for the SGC 88. I am happy with the card, especially for the price I paid. Whenever I sell the card, I must remember what I paid and adjust expectations accordingly. I would imagine an Aaron run is a super highly competitive arena in the registry game - probably the biggest reason for difference?

[EvilKing00]

I never sell, but i can say i like the look of the sgc holder better, as well think its more of a secure holder than psa.

I do buy, t205's and ruths graded by sgc, psa, bvg and raw. I always buy the card not the holder.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

In economic marketplaces you need at least two healthy companies to spur competition in creating innovation as well as consumer focused pricing and service. I'm a PSA supporter but hope that SGC and BVG can get their acts together. No one wants a TPG monopoly. Investing in technology (websites that are mobile responsive and look like this decade a good start) and marketing is much needed.

In my experience over the last 24 months, I've cracked 50+ cards out of SGC holders and received an average of 1 grade lower per PSA grading standards. (after the first couple times sending the cards in the holders for crossover and receiving uniformly lower grades, I always break them out first and surprisingly get the same results).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

In economic marketplaces you need at least two healthy companies to spur competition in creating innovation as well as consumer focused pricing and service. I'm a PSA supporter but hope that SGC and BVG can get their acts together. No one wants a TPG monopoly. Investing in technology (websites that are mobile responsive and look like this decade a good start) and marketing is much needed.

In my experience over the last 24 months, I've cracked 50+ cards out of SGC holders and received an average of 1 grade lower per PSA grading standards. (after the first couple times sending the cards in the holders for crossover and receiving uniformly lower grades, I always break them out first and surprisingly get the same results).

As I was saying about PSA being stricter these days...

[glchen]

I also tend to send more of my submissions to PSA, but I still send some to both SGC and Beckett every year, and like AJ, I would like to see a competitive market rather than a monopoly. Frankly, I think since SGC is a smaller company and needs to conserve their capital, I think they should just stick with their bread and butter which is consistent and strong grading, great customer service and delivering cards within their expected turnaround times. They are already foraying into autograph authentication, so let them digest and perfect that before moving onto techy gizmos and the like. I also think that the registry wars are already over. PSA has won that battle. So instead of trying to outdo PSA there, I would just try to have a simple registry that acts more like a checklist that collectors can use rather than battle on points. As others have suggested, allow cards from other TPG's or even raw cards. If they wanted to splurge on their registry, I would have them partner with a company like VCP, so they could integrate current market values into the cards listed on the registry to that collectors could get a rough idea on how much their collection is worth. I know people don't like to say it's investing, but still if people could see their cards like an investment portfolio, it might be a nice touch.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

In economic marketplaces you need at least two healthy companies to spur competition in creating innovation as well as consumer focused pricing and service. I'm a PSA supporter but hope that SGC and BVG can get their acts together. No one wants a TPG monopoly. Investing in technology (websites that are mobile responsive and look like this decade a good start) and marketing is much needed.

In my experience over the last 24 months, I've cracked 50+ cards out of SGC holders and received an average of 1 grade lower per PSA grading standards. (after the first couple times sending the cards in the holders for crossover and receiving uniformly lower grades, I always break them out first and surprisingly get the same results).

right, i will buy an SGC card considering it will crossover 1 grade lower.....yet dealers to this day and i suspect many at the National ..will get mad if you make an offer on an SGC 3 card based on VCP of a PSA 2 ..

Are you guys still talking purely T206's? I mean I've noticed cards in SGC holders tend to sell for a bit less than their PSA counterparts but I have not noticed a full grade difference, which again is why I'm asking if you are talking exclusively T206's (which I own a few of but don't collect exclusively)?

[GregMitch34]

As for non-T206s, I will say again there is a vast gap in value for Cracker Jack 1914s and 1915s.