Here Is the Place, if any on this forum, for Gun Discussion

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

Here is my take on the CHL's. I own and carry a hand gun 90% of the time. I have a Texas CHL and it is honored in 37 states. I understand that certain venues do not allow CHL's. But I will state this. If one person had a CHL in Colorado in the theater, less lives would have been lost. If one person had a CHL in the church, less lives would have been lost. If one of our Service men would have had a gun in the recruiting office..well you get the picture. These scumbags pick out easy targets. Not so easy when others have guns, are trained with them and not afraid to use them. Concealed Handgun is just that "concealed". I'd rather have one when I need it and suffer the fine if I use it than watch as a criminal who could care less about the law uses it against unarmed people.

It makes sense what you are saying...and I agree with it. But let me ask you this: how many accidental injuries/deaths have occurred since people have been allowed to carry firearms? I don't know statistics, but I'm willing to bet it's a decent amount...more to offset the good reasons to carry one? Who knows, but I also feel like I hear of more people shooting people over non issues too. In theory, carrying one for protection sounds fabulous, just not sure it works out that way half of the time.

I'm not totally against guns, I just don't see where guns are a positive outside of the military. Sure, they make for a great sport and practice, but outside of that, they just seem dangerous for the most part. We have to admit, even though most of the time it's the people that are the issue, they always get into the wrong hands and people always die when they shouldn't have. In reality, this will never end and people will always have guns, but that doesn't mean I have to say guns are cool and the Constitution gives me enough backing to say they are ok (we have evolved)...yes, guns are a necessary evil in some areas, but are too risky for any random joe to be walking around with one. Just my opinion...

One more thing...the cars/guns comparison doesn't carry any weight. Anyone could pick up a butter knife and go on a killing spree...anyone could ram their car into another car. A car's purpose isn't to kill, but to travel. A gun's purpose is to destroy something...anything if one desires

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

It makes sense what you are saying...and I agree with it. But let me ask you this: how many accidental injuries/deaths have occurred since people have been allowed to carry firearms? I don't know statistics, but I'm willing to bet it's a decent amount...more to offset the good reasons to carry one? Who knows, but I also feel like I hear of more people shooting people over non issues too. In theory, carrying one for protection sounds fabulous, just not sure it works out that way half of the time.

I'm not totally against guns, I just don't see where guns are a positive outside of the military. Sure, they make for a great sport and practice, but outside of that, they just seem dangerous for the most part. We have to admit, even though most of the time it's the people that are the issue, they always get into the wrong hands and people always die when they shouldn't have. In reality, this will never end and people will always have guns, but that doesn't mean I have to say guns are cool and the Constitution gives me enough backing to say they are ok (we have evolved)...yes, guns are a necessary evil in some areas, but are too risky for any random joe to be walking around with one. Just my opinion...

One more thing...the cars/guns comparison doesn't carry any weight. Anyone could pick up a butter knife and go on a killing spree...anyone could ram their car into another car. A car's purpose isn't to kill, but to travel. A gun's purpose is to destroy something...anything if one desires

In the hands of an untrained person guns are as dangerous as an unskilled driver. I'm 59, have carried for 28 years and have never once pulled it or shot it besides at the range. My girls were all trained on the dangers of guns. They knew and respected the power both inside my house and at their friends house. Trained to know that they are not toys and are not to be fooled with. But I'd rather have one and not need it than not have one and need it. And as a side, I am not a gun enthusaist.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

In the hands of an untrained person guns are as dangerous as an unskilled driver. I'm 59, have carried for 28 years and have never once pulled it or shot it besides at the range. My girls were all trained on the dangers of guns. They knew and respected the power both inside my house and at their friends house. Trained to know that they are not toys and are not to be fooled with. But I'd rather have one and not need it than not have one and need it. And as a side, I am not a gun enthusaist.

It definitely makes sense! One big reason we own guns is to defend ourselves from people that have ill intent...protect from people with guns. In the end, owning a gun is a huge responsibility and now that any ol joe can carry one, we are asking for more issues IMO.

[packs]

I know what you're insinuating: that if someone had a gun they would have shot him. But that is assuming a lot out of a person who has never been in that situation. And besides, if you arm people like security guards at high schools, you're going to be at the mercy of that person's sanity.

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by packs

I know what you're insinuating: that if someone had a gun they would have shot him. But that is assuming a lot out of a person who has never been in that situation. And besides, if you arm people like security guards at high schools, you're going to be at the mercy of that person's sanity.

If we took every senerio with a car, baseball bat or gun we'd live under rocks. Name a security guard, armored car guard or a bank guard that has gone insane and shot people dead. Ok name a terrorist, robber, car jacker that has shot innocent people. Which list do you think is longer and who do you want with you when crime happens? Would you put your hands in front of your face and say "don't shoot" or would you pull your gun and defend your family?

[packs]

Every time I make a post I feel like your instinct is: he thinks we shouldn't have any guns! But that is so far from what I'm saying that I don't understand the reaction. Because of the propensity of weapons from the Federal Assault Weapon Ban being used in mass shootings, all I've said was that the type of guns available for sale to the public should be amended. And that's because in most cases, the weapons I'm talking about taking off the market are bought legally.

Here are some security guard articles I think you should read that demonstrate the dangers of arming security people that I discussed in the post you quoted:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-children.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/sec...stomer/vDPdpG/

http://consumerist.com/2010/10/14/ho...e-parking-lot/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...hood-security#

http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-storie...id_27193.shtml

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...blow-up-school

[vintagetoppsguy]

In case anyone overlooked it, Steve made a great point in post #63. I'm only copying part of it, but you can go back and read it in its entirety if you like.

"Now, you might wonder why the bad stuff always seems to be done with the same piece of hardware. The answer is to me a simple one. It has nothing to do with whether it was the best choice. It's about image. To use the car analogy - there are stereotypes about different cars and their drivers. Like some cars are more often bought by people who are more prone to speeding or acting superior for some reason. Show a movie scene where the guy in a sleeveless shirt says "Hey, don't lean on the Camaro!" And everyone just smiles and laughs because we've all seen that guy. Not all Camaro owners are, but enough that it's a common image. Same as the BMW driver who thinks he's better than everyone because his car is nice or the Prius driver who looks down on the people wrecking the planet with normal cars. In the same way, something like an AR-15 is more attractive to the nuts than many other bits of hardware. Only a small number of owners are nuts, many are very serious responsible people. But the nuts get the attention."

I've never considered the "image" aspect of it, but it makes a lot of sense. A lot of these people are "society's rejects" - they never fit in, they were picked on in school, bullied, etc. Mass shootings are their way "get back" at society.

I honestly think that if you gave one of these nuts the choice between a slingshot and an AR-15 and told them that each would kill the same number of people, they would choose the AR-15 because, just as Steve said, the image that it projects. They fill empowered with an assault rifle over other weapons of choice. They want to go out in a blaze of glory. After all, there are certainly other ways to kill a large number of people besides an assault rifle. The assault rifle give them the power or respect (or so they think) that they never had before.

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by packs

Every time I make a post I feel like your instinct is: he thinks we shouldn't have any guns! But that is so far from what I'm saying that I don't understand the reaction. Because of the propensity of weapons from the Federal Assault Weapon Ban being used in mass shootings, all I've said was that the type of guns available for sale to the public should be amended. And that's because in most cases, the weapons I'm talking about taking off the market are bought legally.

Here are some security guard articles I think you should read that demonstrate the dangers of arming security people that I discussed in the post you quoted:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-children.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/sec...stomer/vDPdpG/

http://consumerist.com/2010/10/14/ho...e-parking-lot/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/0...hood-security#

http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-storie...id_27193.shtml

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...blow-up-school

I think it's great that we can have an adult conversation that states our views in a civil way. I don't get the assault rifle fixation but then again I don't get paying 20k for a PSA 10 when you can buy a 9 for $200 and cannot see the difference. I agree with your statements and I've seen those headlines. Problem is the crazies don't need a license to get a gun, just a few hundred bucks. And as I type this someone is shooting up a theater in Louisiana. Geez