Mystery Solved - Pinpointing the dates of W590 cards

glchen · #1 07-29-2015, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagehofrookies

if one of those Cobbs was from 1931 wouldn't it say "former" or his last team which would be the A's?

According to the font theory since both the player and team name are in bold, the year of issue should be around 1928/29. Therefore, there wouldn't be "former" on the card, but the team name should theoretically have changed to Philadelphia A.L. rather than continue to stay with Detroit.

Unfortunately, the one of the many things that we don't know with the set is how consistent the issuers were with correcting the team and name changes. Did they simply forget to make the changes for Cobb or is the bold/bold part of the font theory disproven? Unfortunately, all of the uncut strips and panels that we have seen so far are from the 1925 year. If we could see a 1931 uncut strip, that might greatly help in dating these cards. Also, if Ty Cobb cards with his team as Philadelphia and with "Former" do appear, then we would probably need to re-assess this part of the font theory. However, the 1931 cards are extremely rare, which is why two new variations to this set were just added in the last year. It's tough to say if and when they would come out. The other thing that has not yet been proven is whether all of the same players that were issued in 1925 were also remained in 1931. For example, for the players that retired, we have seen that "Former" is now added to the card. However, we have not seen all of the players that retired having "Former" cards yet. (e.g., Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, etc) Therefore, it is still possible that for these retired players, they did not have "Former" added to their card or their card in the set was swapped out with another player (e.g., a Roy Spencer).

glchen · #2 01-12-2016, 09:04 PM

More additions to the checklist from Dan M. (Thanks, Dan!) The full checklist is updated in Post 2 of this thread. Here's the summary of the new additions:

(1) Rogers Hornsby - Chicago N.L.
(2) Walter Johnson - Coach (not Pitcher)
(3) George Sissler (Sisler) - Boston (not St. Louis)

The Hornsby card confirms that there were (at least) 3 printings of the W590 set as he is now confirmed on three different cards. The new additions all seem to be from the 1931 printing.

If anyone has a picture of the Sisler card for St. Louis, if they could show it, that would be great. The one that I have has the team/position cut off.

Also, a mea culpa from me. In the previous checklist, I had a Bancroft card with New York - Short Stop as confirmed. However, I do not believe that this card is confirmed. If anyone knows that this card exists, please show it. The Standard Catalog only lists Bancroft with New York, but did not list his position. In the picture from Dan, you can see that there is Bancroft with New York and the position for Coach. Brian also showed this card in post 22, but I completely missed it. Therefore, I kept the New York - SS on the checklist, but changed the status on this card to Not Confirmed. I added the New York - Coach to the checklist for Bancroft, but this is most likely not a true new addition. If anyone does have a New York - SS card for Bancroft or has seen it, please let me know. Thanks!

glchen · #3 01-12-2016, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

According to the font theory since both the player and team name are in bold, the year of issue should be around 1928/29. Therefore, there wouldn't be "former" on the card, but the team name should theoretically have changed to Philadelphia A.L. rather than continue to stay with Detroit.

Unfortunately, the one of the many things that we don't know with the set is how consistent the issuers were with correcting the team and name changes. Did they simply forget to make the changes for Cobb or is the bold/bold part of the font theory disproven? Unfortunately, all of the uncut strips and panels that we have seen so far are from the 1925 year. If we could see a 1931 uncut strip, that might greatly help in dating these cards. Also, if Ty Cobb cards with his team as Philadelphia and with "Former" do appear, then we would probably need to re-assess this part of the font theory. However, the 1931 cards are extremely rare, which is why two new variations to this set were just added in the last year. It's tough to say if and when they would come out. The other thing that has not yet been proven is whether all of the same players that were issued in 1925 were also remained in 1931. For example, for the players that retired, we have seen that "Former" is now added to the card. However, we have not seen all of the players that retired having "Former" cards yet. (e.g., Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, etc) Therefore, it is still possible that for these retired players, they did not have "Former" added to their card or their card in the set was swapped out with another player (e.g., a Roy Spencer).

Now that new Hornsby and Wojo cards have been uncovered, it wouldn't surprise me if there were a Ty Cobb - Philadelphia - Former CF card out there. However, this is assuming that the manufacturer kept the same players on the sheets and bothered to always update them. They could have still kept Cobb as Detroit - CF or replaced him with another player or (non sports person).

Leon · #4 01-15-2016, 11:08 AM

Fantastic information in this thread. Thanks to all who shared it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

Now that new Hornsby and Wojo cards have been uncovered, it wouldn't surprise me if there were a Ty Cobb - Philadelphia - Former CF card out there. However, this is assuming that the manufacturer kept the same players on the sheets and bothered to always update them. They could have still kept Cobb as Detroit - CF or replaced him with another player or (non sports person).

glchen · #5 07-16-2016, 11:40 AM

Just wanted to add a scan of another W590 strip with Lou Gehrig on it. This uncut strip was sold at a recent Hunt auction (Link), which unfortunately, I did not win as I completely forgot about the auction ending day. (Might not have won it anyway.) Unfortunately, this uncut strip for Gehrig no longer exists since it looks like the winner of the strip already cut the strip down to slab the Gehrig card. This Gehrig card was slabbed by PSA with a 6, and just sold at the PWCC auction (Link). The consignor is probably ecstatic as he cleared a huge profit on that card. (Not me on either side of this transaction.)

Snapolit1 · #6 07-16-2016, 12:07 PM

I bought the Gehrig. Can't believe he had the stones t cut it. Wow. Did a nice job. I'm not sure I could have done it. Was wondering where the new Gehrig came from.

Stampsfan · #7 07-17-2016, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I bought the Gehrig. Can't believe he had the stones t cut it. Wow. Did a nice job. I'm not sure I could have done it. Was wondering where the new Gehrig came from.

Congrats Steve. I was an underbidder on the card. Looking at the bid history, my first thought was the winner really stepped up and wanted the card.

Well done sir!!

JustinD · #8 07-16-2016, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

Just wanted to add a scan of another W590 strip with Lou Gehrig on it. This uncut strip was sold at a recent Hunt auction (Link), which unfortunately, I did not win as I completely forgot about the auction ending day. (Might not have won it anyway.) Unfortunately, this uncut strip for Gehrig no longer exists since it looks like the winner of the strip already cut the strip down to slab the Gehrig card. This Gehrig card was slabbed by PSA with a 6, and just sold at the PWCC auction (Link). The consignor is probably ecstatic as he cleared a huge profit on that card. (Not me on either side of this transaction.)

Amazing ROI, wish I could pull off a few moves like that.

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