eBay: Seller's feedback 'not given until feedback received'

[OldEnglishD]

So a few months ago I came across a few eBay listings that say something to the affect that they will not post feedback until after the buyer does.

Seems to me that if I win or 'buy it now' an item and pay quickly I should receive positive feedback. I've held up my end of the deal. Shouldn't be contingent on the feedback I leave, methinks.

Thoughts? Am I overthinking this?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe it's an inducement to leave feedback; I have noticed that over the past year a relatively small percentage of buyers are leaving feedback, particularly for noncard items.

I suppose a seller also might not want to leave feedback for someone who is going to act unreasonably about wanting to return at item, and thus waits.

[Econteachert205]

I don't like to give feedback before the buyer has received the item. A lot can happen along the way. Once received and no complaints for a day or two, I leave feedback. The buyer usually follows suit.

[Sean1125]

I automatically give feedback upon receipt of payment.

I have seen an upturn in the amount of feedback I receive when a buyer gets feedback the instant of payment.

[OldEnglishD]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I don't like to give feedback before the buyer has received the item. A lot can happen along the way. Once received and no complaints for a day or two, I leave feedback. The buyer usually follows suit.

Makes sense, but you don't hold feedback to the buyer hostage until you receive it from them.

[ILTBOC2]

As a buyer only, I never give feedback until I've received it. I believe I have upheld my part of the bargain when I win an auction and pay for it immediately. At that point, I have fulfilled my part of the transaction. That being said, I've only had a handful of sellers who don't leave feedback first.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I don't like to give feedback before the buyer has received the item. A lot can happen along the way. Once received and no complaints for a day or two, I leave feedback. The buyer usually follows suit.

Feedback used to be irrelevant to me, but since only buyers can leave negative, I don't see the issue with the buyer leaving feedback first. Seems like a reasonable seller policy, for reasons Dennis points out above.

[drcy]

It's often a matter of wording, the way you say things. You can say the same thing in a polite friendly manner or an accusatory manner. Some people don't know the difference between "Please leave positive feedback if you're satisfied with the transaction" versus "Give feedback when the transaction is finished, buddy." You can say the same thing, have the same rule, but one is worded a way that offends and one that doesn't.

I'm a volunteer and have told my bosses that I don't particularly care what task they give me, so long as the say "Please" and "Thank you." It's really that easy with me. I had a hard driving boss, but liked working for her because she always politely asked me if I wanted to do a task and thanked me when it was done. If no one said please or thank you, or something with similar sentiments, I'd have quite a long time ago.

Of course, baseball card show dealers lacking basic social graces is almost a thing of legend in the hobby.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I don't like to give feedback before the buyer has received the item. A lot can happen along the way. Once received and no complaints for a day or two, I leave feedback. The buyer usually follows suit.

Exactly my thoughts Dennis.

[D. Bergin]

I leave feedback in bulk, usually a couple times a week. I usually have no idea if they have left feedback for me already, nor do I worry about it.

On the other hand, I'm not sure why buyers even worry about if they get feedback or not. It means absolutely nothing to them. If you are a buyer only, you will always have 100%. I guess it helps even out your feedback % if you are both a buyer and seller on the same account.

It annoys me a little bit when it seems like only 20% of buyers actually leave feedback for you, but then when I went to leave about 40 feedback as a buyer the other day, it was a big pain in the ass.

There's no way to bulk upload the feedback. You have to copy and paste all your responses, then there's the stars you have to leave. Takes up a buttload of time. Then to top it off, the feedback tool gave me a big fat error when I went to submit, and I had to redo them all over again.

Ebay has turned into glitch central the last year or so. They've somehow turned the phrase "Keep it simple, stupid", into "Keep it stupid, simple".

[OldEnglishD]

All good points, but I'm getting hung up on the fact that the seller won't leave feedback until the buyer does.

Maybe it's like Peter suggests, but it feels to me like they are saying 'no (positive) feedback unless you give me positive feedback first'.

And that may even be OK if worded nicely like drcy mentions.

[gabrinus]

I agree with the above. I leave feedback for the buyer after I have shipped the package. It seems only fair when they have lived up to their part of the bargain. I get messages from people sometimes when the buyer wants to flip before the card gets there. I always respond "the guy paid the card is his now". Too many don't want to pay for me to badmouth someone who did. Now sellers who don't leave feedback after I have as a buyer...that is irritating.

[egbeachley]

Buyer should leave feedback first after receipt of the item to signify the transaction is complete. Then the seller can reciprocate.

But really, does anyone actually care about feedback anymore? I preferred to not receive any since it makes it more difficult for my completion to see what I'm buying and for how much. I guess that doesn't matter so much with everything being hidden by ebay now.

[Jewish-collector]

The feedback system is completely useless nowadays.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I am a buyer more than a seller. As a seller, I leave the buyer positive feedback as soon as he/she fulfills his/her part of the transaction. As a buyer, I expect the same courtesy but rarely get it. I honestly have just stopped paying attention one way or the other.

[hawaiian bam bam]

a Smart/experienced/been burned by bad buyers seller wont leave it until feedback received. BECAUSE: ive had buyers that once i left feedback, they will nickel and dime you, complain that the item isnt gem mint perfect beckett grade 11 (yes i know 10 is the most highest grade but some buyers seem like they want a grade 11 on their items!) they will extort you and threaten you until you "fear the negative feedback" and give in and give them an item for free. or the famous "partial refund to keep the buyer happy" bad buyers knows that ebay is the "buyers" world and ebay wont do nothing to them even for extortion ebay will look the other way. ebay caters to buyers, buyers hold feedback "hostage" until they get what they want .so smart sellers are now waiting to give feedback. because why give feedback to buyers if they are going to screw you anyway? this all started when ebay took away the power from sellers to leave a buyer negative feedback. this nonsense never happened before when we were able to leave a negative for a buyer.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by hawaiian bam bam

a Smart/experienced/been burned by bad buyers seller wont leave it until feedback received. BECAUSE: ive had buyers that once i left feedback, they will nickel and dime you, complain that the item isnt gem mint perfect beckett grade 11 (yes i know 10 is the most highest grade but some buyers seem like they want a grade 11 on their items!) they will extort you and threaten you until you "fear the negative feedback" and give in and give them an item for free. or the famous "partial refund to keep the buyer happy" bad buyers knows that ebay is the "buyers" world and ebay wont do nothing to them even for extortion ebay will look the other way. ebay caters to buyers, buyers hold feedback "hostage" until they get what they want .so smart sellers are now waiting to give feedback. because why give feedback to buyers if they are going to screw you anyway? this all started when ebay took away the power from sellers to leave a buyer negative feedback. this nonsense never happened before when we were able to leave a negative for a buyer.

+1

Pretty much sums up why I stopped listing on Ebay.

[clydepepper]

As a seller, I give feedback as soon as prompt payment is made...if it is a late payment, I remain tactful in any comments I make...not wanting to incite any pettiness.

IMHO, not leaving positive feedback for prompt payment shows one's lack of confidence their ability to pack the card properly or the thought that shipping issues outside of their own control happen more often that occasionally - as it does for most of us.

If there is a need for a legit return and / or refund, I request that the buyer leave positive feedback something like 'great customer service' once I have completed that type of transaction.



As a buyer, I leave feedback as soon as I have opened the package and verified that everything is satisfactory.
.
.

[ALR-bishop]

I am strictly a buyer on eBay. Once I get an item in good shape I always leave positive feedback since it seems important to some sellers. I could care less if the seller leaves feedback for me. I never check. All I care about is getting the item as described for the agreed price.

I admit I was more cautious when sellers could give negatives

[slidekellyslide]

I have my ebay set up to automatically leave feedback for a buyer the moment they pay for their item. I used to leave feedback once a month and it was way too time consuming to leave 500+ feedbacks. I also got tired of people emailing me and asking when I was going to leave them feedback.

I don't understand why some sellers feel the need to wait until they receive feedback first. A buyer pays for an item, they've completed their end of the deal IMO, plus when a buyer gets feedback that quickly they are far more apt to give you good feedback in return and be repeat customers. My star ratings all went up when I set up automatic feedback.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I have my ebay set up to automatically leave feedback for a buyer the moment they pay for their item. I used to leave feedback once a month and it was way too time consuming to leave 500+ feedbacks. I also got tired of people emailing me and asking when I was going to leave them feedback.

I don't understand why some sellers feel the need to wait until they receive feedback first. A buyer pays for an item, they've completed their end of the deal IMO, plus when a buyer gets feedback that quickly they are far more apt to give you good feedback in return and be repeat customers. My star ratings all went up when I set up automatic feedback.

I don't think they necessarily have completed their end of the deal. I have had people be completely unreasonable about demanding a return, and of course paypal and ebay are going to side with them almost all the time.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think they necessarily have completed their end of the deal. I have had people be completely unreasonable about demanding a return, and of course paypal and ebay are going to side with them almost all the time.

I don't think people like that even care about the feedback you give them. You can't neg them so what do they care? I really have almost no problem with people like that and I have been leaving feedback immediately upon payment for 2 or 3 years now with 500+ sales per month. When I get an odd customer with unreasonable demands I try my best to avoid negative feedback, be as nice as possible in all communications and then block them.

[egri]

As someone who only buys, I leave feedback when I recieve the item. Unless the seller really did something out of line i.e. sat on my item for three weeks before shipping it, then I don't say anything negative.

[chaddurbin]

Just leave feedback first as a seller, who cares! If it's a bad buyer you'd only irritate them more by holding the feedback hostage. As a seller i leave feedback to indicate when shipment goes out, i never check whether the buyer reciprocates...if i don't hear anything that's good news to me.

[OldEnglishD]

Originally Posted by hawaiian bam bam

a Smart/experienced/been burned by bad buyers seller wont leave it until feedback received. BECAUSE: ive had buyers that once i left feedback, they will nickel and dime you, complain that the item isnt gem mint perfect beckett grade 11 (yes i know 10 is the most highest grade but some buyers seem like they want a grade 11 on their items!) they will extort you and threaten you until you "fear the negative feedback" and give in and give them an item for free. or the famous "partial refund to keep the buyer happy" bad buyers knows that ebay is the "buyers" world and ebay wont do nothing to them even for extortion ebay will look the other way. ebay caters to buyers, buyers hold feedback "hostage" until they get what they want .so smart sellers are now waiting to give feedback. because why give feedback to buyers if they are going to screw you anyway? this all started when ebay took away the power from sellers to leave a buyer negative feedback. this nonsense never happened before when we were able to leave a negative for a buyer.

Makes sense, but why put the statement in the listing? Pain in the rear buyers will not be impacted by the 'no feedback until received' statement in the listing.

The seller could withold feedback without verbalizing it on the listing and avoid stirring up people like me.

[steve B]

Since the feedback system became a one way street I've pretty much abandoned it. I haven't sold in a few years so it's all buying. I leave feedback in small batches and very occasionally usually when I think a seller has gone beyond expectations, like an item being extremely well packed, or shipped almost instantly. I had one where the shipping notice was about 20 minutes after I'd paid. That's quick enough for feedback. Saying they'll ship in a day or two and doing that is just meeting expectations.

If a seller is new, I'll leave feedback as well.

And as a tool to check out a seller it's not all that useful unless their feedback is truly awful. Sellers with a fairly high number usually have a couple negatives or neutrals. And most of those are from new buyers who have unreasonable expectations. Bought on Friday, neg left on Monday because the item hasn't arrived yet. those are totally meaningless, as are the ones complaining about a defect clearly shown in the pics or mentioned in the description. I had one of those - needlepoint pattern that had been a kit. Sold as a pattern with "This is just the pattern, none of the thread or cloth is included" And got a feedback saying "the cloth and thread weren't in the package" .......

Steve B

[OldEnglishD]

Originally Posted by OldEnglishD

So a few months ago I came across a few eBay listings that say something to the affect that they will not post feedback until after the buyer does.

Seems to me that if I win or 'buy it now' an item and pay quickly I should receive positive feedback. I've held up my end of the deal. Shouldn't be contingent on the feedback I leave, methinks.

Thoughts? Am I overthinking this?

And now the rest of the story:

When I saw the listings I thought the feedback comment was interesting but still made a few 'Buy it now' purchases from the seller and received the cards no problem. I then left POSITIVE feedback and commented 'Don't like that you won't leave feedback until I do.'

Flash forward to last week when I went to purchase another card from the seller. I had been blocked - and after checking, saw that I had not received feedback from the seller for the previous purchases.

I emailed the seller asking if my comment was the reason I was blocked. They confirmed, adding (in part), 'We take great pride in our reputation & customer satisfaction and the comment was negative & unnecessary. Contacting us privately would have been a better solution.'

FWIW, the seller has over 14,700 feedback, 100% satisfaction and no longer had the feedback statement in the listings I was most recently looking at.

At the time I felt my comment was no big deal, and provided honest feedback. Still do.

I guess that in the end, I did receive feedback, although it took me a while to find it.

[D. Bergin]

Did you also ding their stars?

[OldEnglishD]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Did you also ding their stars?

Nope, from my perspective everything was smooth. Just didn't like feedback to me being held hostage.

[drcy]

First of all, there are one thousand avenues and arguments to this topic, and I don't take the facebook feedback system seriously-- it obviously dubious in anyways. Trying to find a simple, correct answer that everyone agrees with to a messed up and stupid system is impossible. That the seller can give feedback but it can only be positive says how stupid is the feedback system. And that the lowest possible feedback a buyer can have is 100 percent is pure satire-- as in "What's the point?" The feedback system has always been messed up and comical in one way or the other over the years.

But, in defense of a seller who gives feedback second, the seller can't give negative feedback. It's not possible for him to retaliate with feedback. So for him to say, because of that, he will give it second isn't unreasonable. A problem for sellers, that buyers may not realize, it that the really and monetarily can be damaged by negatives. If a crabby buyer leaves an unwarranted negative or even neutral-- or even a positive with less than stellar star ratings-- the buyer can be charged a higher selling rate by eBay. That's why sellers, who have no almost no power over feedback, can be anal about feedback. I don't agree with a seller deciding to give feedback second only (I think it's good policy to be gracious with customers. Being a curt cashier doesn't attract customers), but I see the reasoning for it. It's a messed up system, and it's usually the seller who gets the short end of the stick in it.

I would say "It's an idiotic system, so just forget about it." Many sellers would respond that they one hundred percent agree it's an idiotic system and they'd love to forget about it, but the problem is their revenues are tied to it. They'd say buyers can just forget about it, because their feedbacks will always be 100 percent.

[D. Bergin]

Well I guess there's just certain things that annoy certain people.

Thinking from a logical standpoint, for any Ebay sellers out there, there is absolutely zero tactical advantage gained by withholding feedback. The only thing it can accomplish is to aggravate the type of buyer who likes to see his feedback score go up, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter.

For those worried about scammers, there is no reason withholding feedback would discourage them. There's nothing left in the feedback tool for sellers to warn others of bad buyers. All you as a seller can do is file a Non Paying Bidder report if a bidder doesn't pay, and send everything with Delivery Confirmation or Signature Confirmation to protect yourself if they say they haven't received the item. If you see somebody who raises a red flag in your mind, then block them from bidding/buying your listings.

For buyers, all I can say is there is not a seller out there who can hold your feedback "hostage". It doesn't matter. He can't hurt you with feedback. He can't lower your score. He can't leave you a negative. He can't ding your stars, because there are no stars to ding. He can't hurt your percentages by NOT giving you feedback. He can't even post a positive feedback and write a negative message within that feedback without raising the ire of Ebay.

The buyer CAN conceivably hold the sellers feedback "hostage", and even attempt to extort a seller in exchange for positive (or NOT negative) feedback. A buyer CAN leave a negative, a buyer CAN ding a sellers stars. A buyer CAN post a positive AND write a negative message within that feedback and Ebay will likely not do anything about it (citing it as an opinion).

As a means of feeling like they have some sort of control over the issues, many sellers feeling somewhat helpless over the matter, may try to make themselves feel less helpless by instituting policies like: "When you leave feedback, I'll leave feedback". Blocking buyers who they think can hurt their business. Blocking buyers who leave negative comments within their feedback (whether it's a positive or negative), blocking buyers they think have dinged their stars.

Personally I've already thought too much about this. I just try to post positive feedback fairly quickly after somebody has paid for their items and don't worry about if I get it in return, even though it is directly beneficial to me (as a seller) in my overall stats with Ebay, if my positive is reciprocated by the buyer.

[drcy]

A funny thing is with the last sale I had and while this discussions was going on, the buyer messaged asking me to give feedback first because his half of the deal by paying (That's fine, I don't care one way or the other, and gave him positive feedback).

So some sellers are insisting they get feedback first, while some buyers are insisting they receive feedback first.

In short, if you think this debate is going to be solved anytime soon (or ever) good luck.

And no doubt there are some eBayers who, whether buyer or seller, always give feedback second. Or first. Or all at once at 7pm on Sunday or when mood suits them without referencing who has or hasn't given feedback. There are so many computational possibilities.

[Runscott]

please forgive the interruption.