Bill Mastro -- What He Really Thinks of His Hobby Friends

wonkaticket · #1 08-13-2015, 08:46 PM

Between helping out at the church, sponsoring alcoholics, volunteering at the soup kitchen etc. how did Bill find the time to take advantage of his customers?

Peter_Spaeth · #2 08-13-2015, 08:52 PM

Moved to other thread so as not to hijack this one.

Kenny Cole · #3 08-13-2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Between helping out at the church, sponsoring alcoholics, volunteering at the soup kitchen etc. how did Bill find the time to take advantage of his customers?

Paper cutter in the church basement is my guess. Easy to run down there when on a break from soup ladling.

calvindog · #4 08-13-2015, 09:44 PM

When Bill wasn't suffering from painful urination (yes, he mentioned that in his request for leniency) he was shill bidding like a madman. In the 12 auctions after April of 2007 -- after he learned he was under FBI investigation -- Mastro shill bid in over 1300 lots. One can only imagine how much fraud was going on before he found out the feds were on to him. Yet he argues in his sentencing memo that his shill bidding was "statistically infrequent."

Peter_Spaeth · #5 08-13-2015, 09:53 PM

According to Mastro's lawyers:
In addition to the relatively small average
pecuniary impact, Bill�s offense conduct touched a very small percentage of the auction house�s
total business: approximately 1% of the total lots sold by Mastro Auctions over 13 years, and a
fraction of its customer base. Bill�s misconduct, though it extended over a period of years, was
not systematic or, as numerous witnesses attest, characteristic of his business practice.

judsonhamlin · #6 08-13-2015, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

When Bill wasn't suffering from painful urination (yes, he mentioned that in his request for leniency) he was shill bidding like a madman. In the 12 auctions after April of 2007 -- after he learned he was under FBI investigation -- Mastro shill bid in over 1300 lots. One can only imagine how much fraud was going on before he found out the feds were on to him. Yet he argues in his sentencing memo that his shill bidding was "statistically infrequent."

Well there you go! "Your Honor, of all the people my client has met in his life, he has only killed one. That is statistically infrequent enough to be almost zero, and therefore a nullity". I need to remember that one. Basically calling all of it a rounding error. Great, just great.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 08-13-2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

When Bill wasn't suffering from painful urination (yes, he mentioned that in his request for leniency) he was shill bidding like a madman. In the 12 auctions after April of 2007 -- after he learned he was under FBI investigation -- Mastro shill bid in over 1300 lots. One can only imagine how much fraud was going on before he found out the feds were on to him. Yet he argues in his sentencing memo that his shill bidding was "statistically infrequent."

Are his lawyers misrepresenting the facts? Is there some technical or definitional issue that explains the discrepancy between their numbers and the ones you mention? It seems hard to reconcile. 1300 lots in 12 auctions can't be less than 1 percent can it?

Orioles1954 · #8 08-13-2015, 10:11 PM

Now I know why there are so many ultra high-grade Diamond Stars cards floating around....

conor912 · #9 08-13-2015, 11:01 PM

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 08-14-2015, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

Many otherwise intelligent, successful people seem to leave their critical thinking behind them when it comes to cards, memorabilia, etc. Then again, as long as others do the same, the cards appreciate in value whether altered or not, so what difference does it make?

ls7plus · #11 08-14-2015, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

This is the main reason I don't buy prewar nicer than ex. I find it virtually impossible to believe that little pieces of cardboard that had zero monetary value for the first 40+ years of their existence could survive in that nice of condition.

As long as people keep spending 1000x more on a PSA 9 than they would on the same exact same card raw, this behavior will never end. The hobby brings it on itself, which is why the Feds just sit back and laugh at it. When a prewar sheet is worth more cut up and slabbed than it is whole, there is a serious problem.

+1 to the nth degree!!!

Highest regards,

Larry

calvindog · #12 08-13-2015, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are his lawyers misrepresenting the facts? Is there some technical or definitional issue that explains the discrepancy between their numbers and the ones you mention? It seems hard to reconcile. 1300 lots in 12 auctions can't be less than 1 percent can it?

To Bill Mastro, 1300 shilled lots in 12 auctions is "statistically infrequent." If there are three lots in those 12 auctions which were NOT shilled he would also claim that the shilling was "statistically infrequent." Basically he wants credit for not shilling lots in any auctions in which he destroyed the bidding records -- because there was evidence of him shilling the lots.

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