Future HOFers

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

A guy who hasn't been mentioned, Andrew Jones. He has a lot better chance than most names people are throwing out. One of the 3 best defensive outfielders all time, with Clemente and Mays, plus a very good hitter in his prime.

He had some nice years but with a .254 career BA, and 1900 hits, he isn't getting into any Hall of Fame. EDIT TO ADD I am a Red Sox fan but I agree about Ortiz -- in my opinion he is in that host of guys a step below, even without regard to the PED issue. McGriff as mentioned, Delgado comes to mind, maybe Giambi. He has some big enough looking numbers but they don't translate that well according to the Baseball Reference metrics. He is popular though.

Black Ink Batting - 16 (144), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 137 (122), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 138 (96), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 48 (94), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS First Base (33rd), 49.0 career WAR/33.3 7yr-peak WAR/41.1 JAWS

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He had some nice years but with a .254 career BA, and 1900 hits, he isn't getting into any Hall of Fame. EDIT TO ADD I am a Red Sox fan but I agree about Ortiz -- in my opinion he is in that host of guys a step below, even without regard to the PED issue. McGriff as mentioned, Delgado comes to mind, maybe Giambi. He has some big enough looking numbers but they don't translate that well according to the Baseball Reference metrics. He is popular though.

Black Ink Batting - 16 (144), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 137 (122), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 138 (96), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 48 (94), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS First Base (33rd), 49.0 career WAR/33.3 7yr-peak WAR/41.1 JAWS

A JONES has a higher WAR and JAWS than most of the names being thrown out. If you don't think he's a hofer, fine. Then so aren't 80-90% of the names being thrown out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

A JONES has a higher WAR and JAWS than most of the names being thrown out. If you don't think he's a hofer, fine. Then so aren't 80-90% of the names being thrown out.

Yeah I would agree with you, many of the names mentioned are just not worthy.

[packs]

I don't think Mauer will get in. He had some great years as an elite catcher but I don't think it was enough. People have already forgotten for the most part.

Just to jump in on the Halladay discussion. Guidry's career is not at all comparable. Guidry did not pitch at the height of the steroid era or enjoy the separation amongst pitchers that Halladay did. Halladay led the league in complete games and shutouts 4 times in the same season during his career. He was a different breed of pitcher in his time, and that makes him much better than Guidry.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would agree Halladay was better, but Guidry had some fabulous seasons and I don't think the difference is as dramatic as you say.

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would agree Halladay was better, but Guidry had some fabulous seasons and I don't think the difference is as dramatic as you say.

I am for the great talent over a shorter span than the compilers (not talking about Halladay), and Guidry would certainly qualify under that. However, I think I'm also a bit of a tough grader for the HOF at the same time and feel it has gotten watered down with a lot of the inductees... I would agree in giving Halladay the edge over Guidry, and that's coming from a Yankees fan. I think Guidry comes up a bit short in the same way Mattingly does. They were really great for a while but I still feel as though some thresholds need to still be met (Sub 200 wins for Guidry). I don't think the arbitrary stat thresholds are an exact science though and I need to look at everyone's career as a whole and compare them to their contemporaries to accurately assess a player.

I just loved how Halladay in the PED era and pitch count/innings limit era, led the league/ or was near top in innings and complete games all the time.

He also didn't play on some of the greatest Jays teams and still ended with an excellent winning percentage.

[arc2q]

More to the point, how does one accumulate 20,000 autographed cards?

This thread lost total credibility once the name Andruw Jones was thrown out. Is there a better example of a player who got paid and then gave up once he had a guaranteed big money contract?

I go by the Dale Murphy Rule. If a player is not more prominent and heralded in his own era than Murphy was in his, then his name shouldn't even be mentioned in HOF discussion. There are only a small handful of players active or recently retired who will make the Hall, and I'd definitely not promote any of the young crop of recent stars until they are 7-8 years in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by arc2q

More to the point, how does one accumulate 20,000 autographed cards?

This thread lost total credibility once the name Andruw Jones was thrown out. Is there a better example of a player who got paid and then gave up once he had a guaranteed big money contract?

I go by the Dale Murphy Rule. If a player is not more prominent and heralded in his own era than Murphy was in his, then his name shouldn't even be mentioned in HOF discussion. There are only a small handful of players active or recently retired who will make the Hall, and I'd definitely not promote any of the young crop of recent stars until they are 7-8 years in.

Or Garvey. 6 200 hit seasons, 10 time all star, MVP, 4 gold gloves, 2600 hits. Not even close to making it. So yeah let's not hear about Andruw Jones shall we?

[HRBAKER]

More to the point, how does one accumulate 20,000 autographed cards?

It's not as hard as you think.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think Mauer will get in. He had some great years as an elite catcher but I don't think it was enough. People have already forgotten for the most part.

But the things he did for those years no catcher had ever done before.


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