Oldest Memorabilia

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

Scott - nice item. I have no expertise in tickets, but are you saying that this is a Chicago White Stockings National Association ticket? Thanks.

Hi Mark,
To the best of my knowledge, I believe it is the White Stockings of the National Association.

From my research, The White Stockings began in 1871, but a fire burned down their original stadium in 1871. They re-entered the league in 1874 and I believe that this ticket originates from this season. On the back of the ticket it also makes reference to the Junior White Stockings and the the Resolutes, which may have played at their ball field as well.

I hope this helps.

[iwantitiwinit]

FToliver1987Topps.JPG

[bobfreedman]

1892 Cleveland Spiders Schedule with Cy Young

[murphusa]

1865 leather wrapped bat and an early Victor Bat

[jpop43]

Some of our early bats...

1. c. 1860s tiger maple baseball bat (36" and presentation quality)
2. c. 1860s -1870s leather handled baseball bat; Both Peck & Snyder, and Ward B. Snyder marketed these bats from the 1860's to around 1875.
3. c. 1860s -1870s presentation/trophy bat

All of our 19th century baseball collection can be viewed on our website...

http://dugouttreasures.com/product.cfm?sID=4

Great thread! Many thanks to Gary for getting it started!

Jonathan
www.dugouttreasures.com

[seattlerainiers]

Not my oldest baseball item, but apropos for the thread:
1885 Chicago White Stocking silver trophy ball that belonged to Billy Sunday.

[GaryPassamonte]

Some great stuff posted. Silver trophy ball-wow! Jonathan- those bats look familiar. I think you'll remember this 1867 Fulton NY trophy ball.

[jpop43]

I do and I LOVE it! Simply wonderful piece.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Mark,
To the best of my knowledge, I believe it is the White Stockings of the National Association.

From my research, The White Stockings began in 1871, but a fire burned down their original stadium in 1871. They re-entered the league in 1874 and I believe that this ticket originates from this season. On the back of the ticket it also makes reference to the Junior White Stockings and the the Resolutes, which may have played at their ball field as well.

I hope this helps.

Well, not really. If this was as claimed, it would be, to say the least, a very significant item. But there is absolutely nothing on the ticket that references Chicago, Illinois, the 23rd Street Grounds (AKA State Street Grounds), or the National Association or even just "Association." The “series of games both junior and senior” could mean anything. There is nothing here to support the contention that “senior” means “National Association.”

Any number of town team could have called themselves the "White Stockings," and team names (often based on hosiery color) were a very fluid thing. Of the two Philadelphia entries in the 1873 NA, one was called the White Stockings (changed to Pearls in 1874).

All you seem to being saying here is that it is an 1874 baseball season ticket (it surely is), the Chicago White Stockings NA club played in 1874 (they surely did), therefore this is a Chicago NA ticket. There are some big logical steps missing.

The signature looks like "H. A. Jackson." Did you find that he had some connection to the Chi NA club?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

Well, not really. If this was as claimed, it would be, to say the least, a very significant item. But there is absolutely nothing on the ticket that references Chicago, Illinois, the 23rd Street Grounds (AKA State Street Grounds), or the National Association or even just "Association." The “series of games both junior and senior” could mean anything. There is nothing here to support the contention that “senior” means “National Association.”

Any number of town team could have called themselves the "White Stockings," and team names (often based on hosiery color) were a very fluid thing. Of the two Philadelphia entries in the 1873 NA, one was called the White Stockings (changed to Pearls in 1874).

All you seem to being saying here is that it is an 1874 baseball season ticket (it surely is), the Chicago White Stockings NA club played in 1874 (they surely did), therefore this is a Chicago NA ticket. There are some big logical steps missing.

The signature looks like "H. A. Jackson." Did you find that he had some connection to the Chi NA club?

Hi Bruce,
FWIW, you may be correct, because the front of the ticket does not state Chicago White Stockings.

FYI, I never was able to nail down the signature on the back when I tried to do some research on it when I bought it from an eBay seller in Illinois (to the best of my recollection) several years ago. In 2010 I did see another one of these season tickets in a catalogue auction, but it was unsigned on the back
There is a book entitled Major League Baseball Expansions and Relocations: A History, 1876-2008 by Frank P. Jozsa, Jr that does make mention of the Resolutes in 1874, but I don't have iron clad proof that the ticket originates from the Chicago White Stockings.

Hell, the ticket is over 140 years old & I just like the damn thing!

Beautiful rarities by the other posters. Congrats to all of you that own these beauties!

[sicollector1954]

Some amazing survivors to say the least….here is my Spalding ring bat…made out of willow and currently weighs only 26 oz. Have it right below an Albert Spalding framed autograph in my sports room.

[WWGjohn]

A couple of 1850's town ball bats and an 1860's bat.

Top bat is 32" long, 30 oz made of hickory.
Middle bat is 32" long, 30 oz.
Bottom bat is 39" long, 36 oz.

John

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Bruce [sic],
FWIW, you may be correct,...I don't have iron clad proof that the ticket originates from the Chicago White Stockings...Hell, the ticket is over 140 years old & I just like the damn thing!

I know this thread is intended to be a display of everyone's really nice old stuff, so I thought about this for a while before posting further. But, by my count this is 3rd time you have posted the claim that this is for sure an 1874 NA ticket, which would be to say the least an extremely rare item. I guess it could be considered progress that you are now saying that you don't have "iron clad proof," but that misses the point which is:
there is absolutely no logical reason to think that this is an NA ticket.

[packs]

1868:


[/QUOTE]

[ksfarmboy]

Wow some great items shown. This is the oldest item I have that I know the date of for sure so I'm going with it. 1875 silver trophy ball.

[vintagesportscollector]

Clint, very cool ball, but wow on the dents . Did they actually play ball that trophy.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

I know this thread is intended to be a display of everyone's really nice old stuff, so I thought about this for a while before posting further. But, by my count this is 3rd time you have posted the claim that this is for sure an 1874 NA ticket, which would be to say the least an extremely rare item. I guess it could be considered progress that you are now saying that you don't have "iron clad proof," but that misses the point which is:
there is absolutely no logical reason to think that this is an NA ticket.

Mark,
This is going to be my last post on this topic as well, and it is as you said, an opportunity to share nice old stuff. I don't want this to get into a pissing contest, because I don't really believe anybody likes that kind of thing. I have always enjoyed your posts on net54 and I have no issue with you personally and I truly believe that you bring value to the net54 forum.

FWIW,I sincerely don't ever recall stating that the ticket is "for sure" a NA ticket. When I purchased it originally, I did believe that it was (at least that was my thought process up until your post).
What I did say when you questioned me about it is that I believed it was from the NA White Stockings "to the best of my knowledge". You made the point that it likely wasn't because of a couple of factors. OK, fine. It's not the first time that I've been wrong and certainly not the last time I'm sure.
It's OK to question a person's perception of reality if you believe that it should be reconsidered & I have.

Please don't make it sound like I have done this through conscious misrepresentation, because it was never intended that way.
Enough said. Peace, out!

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Mark,
This is going to be my last post on this topic as well, and it is as you said, an opportunity to share nice old stuff. I don't want this to get into a pissing contest, because I don't really believe anybody likes that kind of thing. I have always enjoyed your posts on net54 and I have no issue with you personally and I truly believe that you bring value to the net54 forum.

FWIW,I sincerely don't ever recall stating that the ticket is "for sure" a NA ticket. When I purchased it originally, I did believe that it was (at least that was my thought process up until your post).
What I did say when you questioned me about it is that I believed it was from the NA White Stockings "to the best of my knowledge". You made the point that it likely wasn't because of a couple of factors. OK, fine. It's not the first time that I've been wrong and certainly not the last time I'm sure.
It's OK to question a person's perception of reality if you believe that it should be reconsidered & I have.

Please don't make it sound like I have done this through conscious misrepresentation, because it was never intended that way.
Enough said. Peace, out!

OK, sorry if I misunderstood your intent - have a nice holiday weekend.

[Jason19th]

Here are my two oldest

1. Woodcut from Potter's History of Greece- section on the ancient Olympic Games (1696)

2. Woodcut from Carver's Boys Book of Sports (1834)