I got screwed over on the BST today!

packs · #1 09-28-2015, 09:52 AM

From afar I see both sides. But in the end I think a card is yours until it's not yours and even though it might rub people the wrong way, keeping your card is your right. I think it'll make people less willing to do business with you, but I also don't see any real harm done if funds are returned.

The secondary sales seems independent of the transaction between buyer and seller, though I understand they add to the frustration.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 09-28-2015, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

From afar I see both sides. But in the end I think a card is yours until it's not yours and even though it might rub people the wrong way, keeping your card is your right. I think it'll make people less willing to do business with you, but I also don't see any real harm done if funds are returned.

The secondary sales seems independent of the transaction between buyer and seller, though I understand they add to the frustration.

That analysis would apply equally if Dan had reneged because he found someone willing to pay more. Would you bless that too?

Wite3 · #3 09-28-2015, 10:08 AM

Or the obvious...GoBucs got a better offer somewhere and the card is (re)sold, so he cannot honor the deal...no idea if this is true but it would be simple to just honor the deal and move on...I cannot see another reason not to honor the deal.

Joshua

nebboy · #4 09-28-2015, 04:22 PM

Or the obvious...GoBucs got a better offer somewhere and the card is (re)sold, so he cannot honor the deal...no idea if this is true but it would be simple to just honor the deal and move on...I cannot see another reason not to honor the deal.

Ding-ding-ding we have a winner

steve B · #5 09-28-2015, 10:09 AM

This is how it was done at the business school I went to

#6 09-28-2015, 10:58 AM

I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose. If some of you don't agree and opt not to do business with me in the future then so be it. There are many, many other avenues available for selling cards at our collective disposal so losing this particular avenue to a percentage of the board is not going to influence my decision one way or another. Neither will anyone's opinion of me as a person, seller, or otherwise.

That said, I have already expressed to Eric that I will absolutely sell him the card (which I do indeed still possess) at the price we agreed upon once I am able to locate and secure a suitable replacement. I know many of you feel I should do that now, and although you are certainly entitled to that opinion, that is not the course I'm choosing to take with the card at this time. This will be my last comment on this particular subject, although I do reserve the right to defend myself against any additional erroneous accusations.

conor912 · #7 09-28-2015, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

t I will absolutely sell him the card (which I do indeed still possess) at the price we agreed upon once I am able to locate and secure a replacement card.

Good grief. Bryce Harper would call this a "clown deal".

Personally, I don't see how holding on to it for a finite amount time outweighs the amount of crap you're taking here, but it's your life.

Also, as crappy as this situation is, it sounds like the OP is (or at least should be) more pissed at himself for hastily selling his card. I understanding wanting to get your cash out of it to help cushion the blow, but it could have waited two days til the new one showed up.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 09-28-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

Good grief. Bryce Harper would call this a "clown deal".

Personally, I don't see how holding on to it for a finite amount time outweighs the amount of crap you're taking here, but it's your life.

Also, as crappy as this situation is, it sounds like the OP is (or at least should be) more pissed at himself for hastily selling his card. I understanding wanting to get your cash out of it to help cushion the blow, but it could have waited two days til the new one showed up.

The OP had every right to expect Dan would deliver the card as promised.

conor912 · #9 09-28-2015, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The OP had every right to expect Dan would deliver the card as promised.

100% agree

Kenny Cole · #10 09-28-2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose. If some of you don't agree and opt not to do business with me in the future then so be it. There are many, many other avenues available for selling cards at our collective disposal so losing this particular avenue to a percentage of the board is not going to influence my decision one way or another. Neither will anyone's opinion of me as a person, seller, or otherwise.

Excellent. Count me among those who have no interest in ever doing business with you. Thanks in advance for your agreement never to bid on anything I might list in the BST. Life is too short to deal with people like you if it isn't absolutely necessary.

iwantitiwinit · #11 09-28-2015, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose. If some of you don't agree and opt not to do business with me in the future then so be it. There are many, many other avenues available for selling cards at our collective disposal so losing this particular avenue to a percentage of the board is not going to influence my decision one way or another. Neither will anyone's opinion of me as a person, seller, or otherwise.

That said, I have already expressed to Eric that I will absolutely sell him the card (which I do indeed still possess) at the price we agreed upon once I am able to locate and secure a suitable replacement. I know many of you feel I should do that now, and although you are certainly entitled to that opinion, that is not the course I'm choosing to take with the card at this time. This will be my last comment on this particular subject, although I do reserve the right to defend myself against any additional erroneous accusations.

That first paragraph is mind-blowing. So it's ok to continue this practice on other venues. I don't think those venues will be any more forgiving than net 54. Your apologies mean nothing when you still have it in your ability to make things right. You f'd him over, make things right and sell him the card as PROMISED and AGREED upon. Why should he be the one without the Mantle, you should be. Your actions and only your actions caused Eric to be without a card.

7nohitter · #12 09-28-2015, 05:45 PM

Maybe it's for the best-that bullsh*t centering on that Mantle would drive me nuts. He can find a much better example!

Peter_Spaeth · #13 09-28-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Maybe it's for the best-that bullsh*t centering on that Mantle would drive me nuts. He can find a much better example!

At the same time it had no print lines, was not out of register, and didn't have big gum stains on the back.

BengoughingForAwhile · #14 09-28-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Maybe it's for the best-that bullsh*t centering on that Mantle would drive me nuts. He can find a much better example!

+1! Eric, there are over 1,000 51 Bowman Mantle cards graded higher just in PSA holders alone. WAIT for a better one to come along, you'll forget all about this one in a hurry!

D. Bergin · #15 09-29-2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Maybe it's for the best-that bullsh*t centering on that Mantle would drive me nuts. He can find a much better example!

Funny, I thought that Mantle looked fantastic for the grade, which is why I think it's causing such a problem between these two collectors.

There's a 3.5 that sold on Ebay for $300+ more, that looks half as good as this 3. I think this is one of those "buy the card, not the holder" examples.

Aesthetically I think Erik will have a hard time finding a similar card at a similar price, no matter how many of these are out there.

chernieto · #16 09-28-2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose. If some of you don't agree and opt not to do business with me in the future then so be it. There are many, many other avenues available for selling cards at our collective disposal so losing this particular avenue to a percentage of the board is not going to influence my decision one way or another. Neither will anyone's opinion of me as a person, seller, or otherwise.

That said, I have already expressed to Eric that I will absolutely sell him the card (which I do indeed still possess) at the price we agreed upon once I am able to locate and secure a suitable replacement. I know many of you feel I should do that now, and although you are certainly entitled to that opinion, that is not the course I'm choosing to take with the card at this time. This will be my last comment on this particular subject, although I do reserve the right to defend myself against any additional erroneous accusations.

Some folks here value the sense of community @ N54 & greatly appreciate and respect the opportunity to buy/sell within said community.
You already sold Eric the card once at the agreed to price. You changed the rules of the transaction after he sent you a large sum of money.
shenanigans.jpg
Why Eric or anyone would consider buying from you in the future is beyond me.
Paul

cardsfan73 · #17 09-28-2015, 07:03 PM

[QUOTE=Gobucsmagic74;1456732]I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose. If some of you don't agree and opt not to do business with me in the future then so be it. There are many, many other avenues available for selling cards at our collective disposal so losing this particular avenue to a percentage of the board is not going to influence my decision one way or another. Neither will anyone's opinion of me as a person, seller, or otherwise. QUOTE]

Any chance you could provide your ebay id and and your id on other venues so I can make sure I don't ever buy from you? I would hate to purchase something somewhere else only to have you change your mind.

Thanks,
Scott

the 'stache · #18 09-29-2015, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

That said, I have already expressed to Eric that I will absolutely sell him the card (which I do indeed still possess) at the price we agreed upon once I am able to locate and secure a suitable replacement.

If we believe this statement, it precludes the possibility that Dan will sell (or has sold) this card to another person.

Part of me hopes Eric will agree to this, just to see if Dan follows through.

cozmokramer · #19 09-29-2015, 07:38 AM

Here is Dan's latest PM... Now he was going to honor the deal but then realized there was no incentive to do so... How about "honor", "honesty", I could think of a lot of incentive....

"Many of you? C'mon Eric, lets not go overboard here. Take your money and find yourself a new Mantle, it really isn't that hard to do. Btw, I was literally seconds away from getting in touch with you and honoring the deal this morning until I read through the thread and realized there was absolutely zero incentive for me to do so. I am truly sorry things went down the way they did, but it's not the end of the world for either of us...even if I never make another deal on this board which is quite possible. "

Leon · #20 09-29-2015, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Here is Dan's latest PM... Now he was going to honor the deal but then realized there was no incentive to do so... How about "honor", "honesty", I could think of a lot of incentive....

"Many of you? C'mon Eric, lets not go overboard here. Take your money and find yourself a new Mantle, it really isn't that hard to do. Btw, I was literally seconds away from getting in touch with you and honoring the deal this morning until I read through the thread and realized there was absolutely zero incentive for me to do so. I am truly sorry things went down the way they did, but it's not the end of the world for either of us...even if I never make another deal on this board which is quite possible. "

I never said I condoned anyone backing out of a deal. In, and of itself, that is not a bannable offense to me. But now, with that last statement of Dan's (hi Dan), and a bit of irony, he is no longer allowed on our BST......there ya' go. There was no incentive not to ban him from there....

Dan- nothing personal...

L

1952boyntoncollector · #21 09-29-2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Here is Dan's latest PM... Now he was going to honor the deal but then realized there was no incentive to do so... How about "honor", "honesty", I could think of a lot of incentive....

"Many of you? C'mon Eric, lets not go overboard here. Take your money and find yourself a new Mantle, it really isn't that hard to do. Btw, I was literally seconds away from getting in touch with you and honoring the deal this morning until I read through the thread and realized there was absolutely zero incentive for me to do so. I am truly sorry things went down the way they did, but it's not the end of the world for either of us...even if I never make another deal on this board which is quite possible. "

i call that 'seconds away' comments instead of 'bargain hunters' like the tv show i call that 'excuse hunters'

i hear that with rentors all the time....'i was just about to pay rent' but then 'i heard you told my neighbor i owe rent' and thats not fair..so now i wont pay...

the fact is if you really are about to pay rent ..or about to honor the deal then you do it.....no reason to bring up excuses....if the deal or the rent was paid on time as agreed then more time would not have passed for more 'excuses' to come up..whether it be some posts on a thread on b/s/t or a nieghbor being told that you owed rent........you dig?

Runscott · #22 10-03-2015, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I'm not asking for anyone's sympathy or support on this one and furthermore understand Eric's frustration and those who feel my decision is/was dishonorable, but at the end of the day the card is mine to do with what I choose.

I don't normally get involved in stuff like that, but in the deal Luke referenced where you offered to sell him a card, I'll clear that up.

I agreed to sell you a card. You offered it for sell to Luke prior to my receiving payment or your receiving the card. What if Luke had agreed to your offer to sell my card to him and had sent you the money, and then I had 'pulled a Dan' and reneged on our deal? What you just did seems much worse than what I considered doing (but didn't), given that not only did you make the deal this time - you actually had the money in hand.

You have now played both sides and claimed that both are ethical. If everyone on the board did business like this, we would have no classified section.

edited for spelling - Whoops

#23 10-03-2015, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

I don't normally get involved in stuff like that, but in the deal Luke referenced where you offered to sell him a card, I'll clear that up.

I agreed to sell you a card. You offered it for sell to Luke prior to my receiving payment or your receiving the card. What if Luke had agreed to your offer to sell my card to him and had sent you the money, and then I had 'pulled a Dan' and reneged on our deal? What you just did seems much worse than what I considered doing (but didn't), given that not only did you make the deal this time - you actually had the money in hand.

You have now played both sides and claimed that both are ethical. If everyone on the board did business like this, we would have no classified section.

edited for spelling - Whoops

In your scenario I would have refunded Luke's money. Pretty simple. As far as the deal with Eric, I made a decision and accept the consequences of it.

Runscott · #24 10-04-2015, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

In your scenario I would have refunded Luke's money. Pretty simple. As far as the deal with Eric, I made a decision and accept the consequences of it.

I just wanted to clear up what happened. The consequences of your behavior are not something I'm concerned about.

chipperhank44 · #25 09-28-2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

From afar I see both sides. But in the end I think a card is yours until it's not yours and even though it might rub people the wrong way, keeping your card is your right.

I agree with this statement, but disagree with how you are applying it to this situation.

Once fully paid for, the OP was the owner of the card. The seller may have still had possession of the card, but ownership had changed hands.

So yes, a card is yours until its not, but I think in this case.....it was not the seller's card anymore.

Peter_Spaeth · #26 09-28-2015, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

I agree with this statement, but disagree with how you are applying it to this situation.

Once fully paid for, the OP was the owner of the card. The seller may have still had possession of the card, but ownership had changed hands.

So yes, a card is yours until its not, but I think in this case.....it was not the seller's card anymore.

So if an instant after the deal was done Dan's house had burned down and the card with it, Eric would have been out of luck because he was now the owner? No, because Dan still had title according to the law, until he completed his obligations with respect to shipping.

Section 2-401(2) of the UCC provides that “title passes to the buyer at the time and place at which seller completes his performance with reference to the physical delivery of the goods.”

But all that, to me, is beside the point.

nolemmings · #27 09-28-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if an instant after the deal was done Dan's house had burned down and the card with it, Eric would have been out of luck because he was now the owner? No, because Dan still had title according to the law, until he completed his obligations with respect to shipping.

Section 2-401(2) of the UCC provides that �title passes to the buyer at the time and place at which seller completes his performance with reference to the physical delivery of the goods.�

But all that, to me, is beside the point.

Always the truculent one

GoldenAge50s · #28 09-28-2015, 11:05 AM

As a long-time Seller on both EBay & right here on Net54, I can't imagine reneging on a deal once the $ had changed hands, EXCEPT if BOTH parties were in agreement to cancel.

GoBucs should think a bit an do the right thing---COMPLETE the deal w/ Cosmo!

Your reputation is at stake, if that means ANYTHING to you.

(Written BEFORE Post 67 was showing ( so apparently he doesn't)

Peter_Spaeth · #29 09-28-2015, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

As a long-time Seller on both EBay & right here on Net54, I can't imagine reneging on a deal once the $ had changed hands, EXCEPT if BOTH parties were in agreement to cancel.

GoBucs should think a bit an do the right thing---COMPLETE the deal w/ Cosmo!

Your reputation is at stake, if that means ANYTHING to you.

See his post above. It doesn't. Not being without a Mantle rookie means more.

chipperhank44 · #30 09-28-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if an instant after the deal was done Dan's house had burned down and the card with it, Eric would have been out of luck because he was now the owner? No, because Dan still had title according to the law, until he completed his obligations with respect to shipping.

Section 2-401(2) of the UCC provides that �title passes to the buyer at the time and place at which seller completes his performance with reference to the physical delivery of the goods.�

But all that, to me, is beside the point.

I said "I disagree", not the law disagrees. I'm glad to know the UCC (and therefore most states) agrees with the OP, but as many have already said, the legality is hardly the issue here. And based on your last statement (But all that, to me, is beside the point) I think you and I agree morally.

Peter_Spaeth · #31 09-28-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

I said "I disagree", not the law disagrees. I'm glad to know the UCC (and therefore most states) agrees with the OP, but as many have already said, the legality is hardly the issue here. And based on your last statement (But all that, to me, is beside the point) I think you and I agree morally.

Yes we are definitely on the same page as an ethical/moral issue, Dan should have completed the deal for sure.

slidekellyslide · #32 09-28-2015, 01:01 PM

I don't even understand the seller's reluctance to honor the deal...he's not too attached to the card since he's shopping around for a replacement. I guess the damage this has done to his reputation is worth holding onto a card that he's shopping around. Weird.

TAVG · #33 09-28-2015, 01:09 PM

....and this is why i don't buy high end cards.

Peter_Spaeth · #34 09-28-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't even understand the seller's reluctance to honor the deal...he's not too attached to the card since he's shopping around for a replacement. I guess the damage this has done to his reputation is worth holding onto a card that he's shopping around. Weird.

I understand not wanting to sell a card until I have replaced it, I just did that in fact, that makes sense to me, but that does not justify reneging on a completed deal.

jrlebert · #35 09-28-2015, 10:38 AM

Dan, bad deal on your part, bud. Once you agreed to the deal, you should have honored it. Once you received the funds, that pretty much sealed it. While nothing legally was done wrong, and this isn't something any of us haven't seen before or are surprised that it happens, it is, for lack of a better term, shady. I will be sure to avoid any deals with you in the future, and I imagine others on this board will or already are.

Leon, do you think it should be a BST rule that you have to have the card in hand before putting it up for sale/trade? I agree that there is no logical way to enforce this, but just having the rule would possibly prevent at least some of these shady characters from trying this here.

What do you think?

Leon · #36 09-28-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrlebert

Dan, bad deal on your part, bud. Once you agreed to the deal, you should have honored it. Once you received the funds, that pretty much sealed it. While nothing legally was done wrong, and this isn't something any of us haven't seen before or are surprised that it happens, it is, for lack of a better term, shady. I will be sure to avoid any deals with you in the future, and I imagine others on this board will or already are.

Leon, do you think it should be a BST rule that you have to have the card in hand before putting it up for sale/trade? I agree that there is no logical way to enforce this, but just having the rule would possibly prevent at least some of these shady characters from trying this here.

What do you think?

I think the fewer rules the better, just like govt. Less is better. As long as no one is out any money and it's not too frequent of an occurance then I prefer to stay out of it.

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