Comments and thoughts needed re: PSA grading

[bnorth]

Best bet is to submit the cards again and see what happens. From what I understand you will not get the grading fees refunded because they did grade them.

Please let us know if the cards actually are small and if you are going to resubmit them and the results if you do.

I know the PSA people hate to hear this but a friend and a fellow board member sent in 2 counterfeit cards on separate orders and both came back as 9's. I acquired 2 of the same counterfeit cards that where also both cut slightly smaller than a real card. I sent both in with a group submission and both came back as 8's.

Sooner or later people will have to figure out what a horrible service they provide.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Best bet is to submit the cards again and see what happens. From what I understand you will not get the grading fees refunded because they did grade them.

Please let us know if the cards actually are small and if you are going to resubmit them and the results if you do.

I know the PSA people hate to hear this but a friend and a fellow board member sent in 2 counterfeit cards on separate orders and both came back as 9's. I acquired 2 of the same counterfeit cards that where also both cut slightly smaller than a real card. I sent both in with a group submission and both came back as 8's.

Sooner or later people will have to figure out what a horrible service they provide.

what cards were the counterfeits?

[MattyC]

If you submit them again, some or all will get in holders. If you submit the ones that remained yet a third time, another one or two will get in holders, and so on. It is just the nature of the game. There is far more subjectivity at play than we at the collector end would like to think. I and many guys I know over the years have had many, many cards take several tries-- but eventually the card wound up in the desired holder or close to it. Hope that helps allay any anxiety regarding your initial results. I recall how I felt the first time that happened to me-- but the cards eventually graded out fine.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

If you submit them again, some or all will get in holders. If you submit the ones that remained yet a third time, another one or two will get in holders, and so on. It is just the nature of the game. There is far more subjectivity at play than we at the collector end would like to think. I and many guys I know over the years have had many, many cards take several tries-- but eventually the card wound up in the desired holder or close to it. Hope that helps allay any anxiety regarding your initial results. I recall how I felt the first time that happened to me-- but the cards eventually graded out fine.

This crazy behavior is the problem. It proves either the graders don't have a clue what they are doing or PSA is straight up scamming people by rejecting cards they know will get submitted again.

Either way how do people keep falling for their tricks. PT Barnum wouldn't even believe this scam and how well it has worked.

I do understand the need for grading companies and think they are a good thing if done correctly.

[glynparson]

You do not get charges a grading fee. You do if they deem it trimmed but not if they label min size. So it is obviously not some sort of scam.

[Sidepocket]

I emailed PSA a week ago regarding vouchers for the "min size" cards and haven't heard a word.

[Exhibitman]

This minimum size thing is BS. The card is either trimmed or as issued. If the latter it should be slabbed. This isn't precision machined aerospace parts we are dealing with. There will be variation.

[Rookiemonster]

Maybe you cracked them open and did a little work on them and PSA noticed .

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Maybe you cracked them open and did a little work on them and PSA noticed .

Really, That is a serious allegation on you part.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Really, That is a serious allegation on you part.

It is and per the rules has garnered his name under his user id....per the rules.

It is my belief that folks cracking cards don't usually work on them between cracking them out. My guess is they work on them before they start trying to get them in holders. Buy big bordered cards....

[Rookiemonster]

Hey I really didn't mean much by it you asked for a option this seems like the most logical unless they left your sight between cracking them open . Or PSA is just making things up as they go . These are the only two real senarios . Either one would not surprise me . Sorry if I offended you in any way

[swarmee]

Well, people who trim cards don't normally post on industry chat boards when they doctor cards and get caught. These cards were posted on the PSA chat boards before being removed from their cases and with the grades they already had and being the best of their grades in his collection, likely deserved bumps.

It is completely feasible that originally the tolerance accepted from PSA to grade a card changed over time, and that these cards ARE short, despite already being holdered. You will see a lot of discussion the the 1975 Topps Mini thread discussing all the "short" cards that were holdered, and how they wouldn't be graded now, despite factory cuts.

Welcome to the board; don't joke about fraud like that. ;-)

[mybestbretts]

I have received back a lot of those Minsizero. If I knew why I would tell you. I have measured and they must be off by so little. I sent in 10 Ripken Fleer rookies that came from the same case and 8 graded and 2 came back with the Minsizero. I have received back altered and the best one was one marked "trimmed "and I called them and asked how a hand cut card could be trimmed .... they said send it back .... it got graded.
This is just my personal opinion, but when I have sent in old cards, I really am more interested in getting them slabbed to protect them then I am the grade.
So I would rather, in that case, to have the option of having it slabbed with the "altered", miscut, etc. It really irritates me to get them back, after all not that many of 40's to 50's or older cards were made with PSA in mind. IMHO.

[swarmee]

I always check my pop to see whether all cards get holdered before they ship them back to me. I use a credit card that generates an email any time I purchase something for more than $250 on it. So when PSA completes the order, charges my credit card, I know the scores have popped. I had two in my recent shipment of 100 cards (1900-1930 era) that originally were originally trimmed or minsize that I stopped the shipment and asked that they holder. They came back as a 4 and a 4.5, I believe.

[mybestbretts]

I did not know that and I always know my grades before they ship them so I will ask for them to be slabbed regardless.
Tks

[mybestbretts]

Here is one of my "altered". Don't you think I would have wanted this slabbed? I don't think the majority of people submitting are dealers.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I always check my pop to see whether all cards get holdered before they ship them back to me. I use a credit card that generates an email any time I purchase something for more than $250 on it. So when PSA completes the order, charges my credit card, I know the scores have popped. I had two in my recent shipment of 100 cards (1900-1930 era) that originally were originally trimmed or minsize that I stopped the shipment and asked that they holder. They came back as a 4 and a 4.5, I believe.

It is stories like this that makes me hate PSA and call their business a total scam. How can 2 cards be trimmed or not meet minsize and then magically turn into a 4 and a 4.5 because the customer simply asks. Obviously the cards did not magically change.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Best bet is to submit the cards again and see what happens. From what I understand you will not get the grading fees refunded because they did grade them.

Please let us know if the cards actually are small and if you are going to resubmit them and the results if you do.

I know the PSA people hate to hear this but a friend and a fellow board member sent in 2 counterfeit cards on separate orders and both came back as 9's. I acquired 2 of the same counterfeit cards that where also both cut slightly smaller than a real card. I sent both in with a group submission and both came back as 8's.

Sooner or later people will have to figure out what a horrible service they provide.

i would like to see these cards as well....

[glynparson]

By credit card it simply was not charged for the minimum size cards. They used to issue vouchers they now just don't charge the card for minimum size, miscue,and do not grade issues. For checks or money order I don't know about the vouchers as I always just give them plastic makes it easier.