PWCC green cobb psa 5.5 going through the roof

[ctownboy]

Why would someone shill a card waaaaay above a record price?

Hypothetical -- A card is worth/valued at $6,000. It gets sent to an auction where it is shilled to the stratosphere. The "auction" ends with a "record" sales price that goes into the VCP.

Six months to a year later, the same card goes to a large but different auction house. Some of the bidders with that auction house don't know the card has a "history" and only look at the VCP reports. They bid on and win the card for $10,000 which they think they got for a bargain since it last sold for $14,000.

So now, because of the shill bids to the stratosphere, a $6,000 card becomes a $10,000 dollar card and the new buyer has no clue they have been cheated.

David

[bobfreedman]

It is not the amount of times that a bidder bids with a specific seller that bothers me, it is the number of bid retractions that a bidder has on the same lot:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 277
Items bid on: 60
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 81% Help
Bid retractions: 4
Bid retractions (6 months): 12

4 bid retractions on the same lot? 12 in past six months? Why is this guy still able to bid on this lot? SMH

[Peter_Spaeth]

It doesn't mean 4 on the same lot it means 4 total in the last 30 days.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Why would someone shill a card waaaaay above a record price?

Hypothetical -- A card is worth/valued at $6,000. It gets sent to an auction where it is shilled to the stratosphere. The "auction" ends with a "record" sales price that goes into the VCP.

Six months to a year later, the same card goes to a large but different auction house. Some of the bidders with that auction house don't know the card has a "history" and only look at the VCP reports. They bid on and win the card for $10,000 which they think they got for a bargain since it last sold for $14,000.

So now, because of the shill bids to the stratosphere, a $6,000 card becomes a $10,000 dollar card and the new buyer has no clue they have been cheated.

David

People tend to do their homework on $10,000 dollar cards...one lone sale isn't all the rage on ebay..they also look at other auction houses.....also you cant shill against your yours..in your situation....the card that sold for $14,000 probably had many underbidders between $10,000-$14,000 unless all of them are shilled...seems like a loot of work..plus since its a PWCC auction you cant just cancel the sale...you will have to eat 6-14% on your win.....

How many times has that 1952 PSA 8 mantle been shilled..the same type of card grade wise.. sold at multiple auction houses for over $400k...but for some reason on ebay its all fake?

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I could see a number of bidders who only use eBay to bid on pwcc auctions but am in agreement on the bid retractions. I've used eBay since late 90's and don't think I've ever had a bid retraction. Serious question, why else would someone have that many retractions unless for shady dealings?

[bxb]

Winning bidder:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 201
Items bid on: 148
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 87% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 18

[iwantitiwinit]

18 bid retractions wtf? Is it possible this could be retracted after the auction and the card gets re-offerred to the 1st real bidder? Honestly I don't understand why someone no matter how satisfied they are with a particular seller would be willing to pay 150% of recent market value. It makes no sense.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

18 bid retractions wtf? Is it possible this could be retracted after the auction and the card gets re-offerred to the 1st real bidder? Honestly I don't understand why someone no matter how satisfied they are with a particular seller would be willing to pay 150% of recent market value. It makes no sense.

Unless the market is changing for these types of cards. Someone paid about a 100% premium on recent market value for that PSA 7 52 Mantle on Heritage. Would we all be making shill accusations if that had been a PWCC auction?

[iwantitiwinit]

I don't know, I would need to see the id's and bidding history of the people winning the Heritage auctions but that transparency doesn't exist.

[mechanicalman]

The winning bidder is cleaning up on all the nicely centered T206s. Same dude has bought 4 other cards I was looking at and also has a $3100 bid on the Cy Young Polar Bear. Must be nice to have significant funds and very little price sensitivity.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

The winning bidder is cleaning up on all the nicely centered T206s. Same dude has bought 4 other cards I was looking at and also has a $3100 bid on the Cy Young Polar Bear. Must be nice to have significant funds and very little price sensitivity.

If it's a real buyer. Hey real possible buyer I have some high grade nicely centered cards that I can sell you at only 125% of recent market prices.

[kickitup]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

If it's a real buyer. Hey real possible buyer I have some high grade nicely centered cards that I can sell you at only 125% of recent market prices.

Here I am, the "real possible buyer".... If you actually have some "high grade, nicely centered cards", feel free to contact me with scans and prices and I will evaluate the opportunity. If not, please refrain from attempting to act like blowhard on some online forum.

I won these auctions because I wanted them more than anyone else. I don't shill, I buy cards at prices that I feel are appropriate, whether you do or not. I have collected for years and purchased cards from multiple sources including ebay, Memory Lane, Heritage, Greg Bussineau. I have bid at Mile High and SCP as well.

If any of you have a problem with the way I bid or who I choose to bid with, too bad. I deal with people I trust and Brent/PWCC Auctions is one of them.

My email is jcornett@liquidity-partners.com.

** BTW, the reason my account has bid retractions was over a heavy disagreement with a seller I was bidding with. My confidence in their service was affected so I canceled my bids with them to protect myself. The seller later apologized, and I later won all the cards that I bid on in which the bids were retracted.