PSA 9 vs. SGC 96 Huge Price Disparity

[Delray Vintage]

Can someone tell me why there is such a price difference between a PSA 9 and SGC 96. I saw the PSA 1956 Mantle go for three times higher on the Heritage Auction. Is the SGC 96 really a PSA 8.5? I looked at the high res scans and could not see much difference. Has the PSA premium grown so much?

[Eric72]

I believe the PSA Registry effect might be in play.

[Stonepony]

Kevin may want to chime in?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I believe the PSA Registry effect might be in play.

100% +1.....you see it more on the commons than the major stars. A PSA 9 common might go for $200+ while and SGC common could very easily fetch $5-$10. No joke.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's not just the registry. That would explain commons but not Mantles. PSA is just much more desirable right now for certain types of cards. And is certainly the brand of choice for a lot of the new money. Like it or not they have done a much better job promoting their brand.

[Touch'EmAll]

Lets say you are sitting at home looking at your, say, a mid-career Topps Aaron, that you honestly believe has a heckuva great shot at PSA 9 or SGC 96. How many of us would nowadays opt to submit to SGC? Years ago, SGC perhaps - as I bet the SGC 96's were graded some time back.

In addition, SGC has a reputation as a little more off-center than PSA. Not to say you can't find a 45/55 or better both ways SGC.

And yes, painfully so, the PSA registry is a big factor.

[GoudeyGum]

So the only difference is the registry? I think if that were true, the prices would be the same minus grading fees. I'm sure I am in the minority, but I think the take away is that if you crack a 96 and submit to PSA, you will get back an 8 most of the time. Just my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by GoudeyGum

So the only difference is the registry? I think if that were true, the prices would be the same minus grading fees. I'm sure I am in the minority, but I think the take away is that if you crack a 96 and submit to PSA, you will get back an 8 most of the time. Just my opinion.

Yeah if it comes back graded at all.

[pokerplyr80]

I think the perception is that if a high end or high grade vintage card is in an SGC holder it's because someone tried to get it into the equivalent PSA holder and failed. As well as that the standards are tougher for PSA than SGC or BVG. I don't know if that's actually the case or not. But it seems to be what people believe.

I do think the registry plays a big role even in very expensive cards. Collectors trying to get the top spot in a major set could be bidding everything from commons to Mantles up.

I do like to gamble though so if a few of you want to pool some money and see if we can crack a couple of high grade SGC cards and get them into PSA holders I'm in.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by GoudeyGum

So the only difference is the registry? I think if that were true, the prices would be the same minus grading fees. I'm sure I am in the minority, but I think the take away is that if you crack a 96 and submit to PSA, you will get back an 8 most of the time. Just my opinion.

the forum has gone over this already...whatever the reason PSAs go for more than SGC..usually a grade better...I have actually seen some sellers with SGC 6's try to help their sale by giving PSA 5 past sale history..not 6s have sold for.... you may find someone that doesn't care about the TPG...but more and more people are paying more for PSA of the same grade....if you want to the same price for your SGC as a PSA grade you you aren't going to get it at open auction..your best chance is a direct sale to someone who doesn't care...

[Delray Vintage]

so the sgc 96 mantle in heritage is worth 30k less than the psa 9? I looked at both cards high resolution and could not see a difference. Seems like whoever bought the SGC should at least try to submit to PSA. Cannot believe they would only get an 8, at least 8.5. Crazy to think the high value cards hinge so much on who graded them at PSA. Does PSA ever give the same grade to an SGC card submitted in the SGC holder?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Delray Vintage

so the sgc 96 mantle in heritage is worth 30k less than the psa 9? I looked at both cards high resolution and could not see a difference. Seems like whoever bought the SGC should at least try to submit to PSA. Cannot believe they would only get an 8, at least 8.5. Crazy to think the high value cards hinge so much on who graded them at PSA. Does PSA ever give the same grade to an SGC card submitted in the SGC holder?

yes..and you can tell PSA not to change the holder if they wont give it the same grade so you are just out the grading fee.......I always factor 1 grade lower when I bid and I just send in the card and take whatever PSA gives me which is 70% of the time 1 grade lower....there are dealers out there that do the opposite they turn PSA 7s for example into SGC 8s...and though they don't get a PSA 8 price...they get more than they paid for the PSA 7 in todays climate..though that could be changing...

[steve B]

I really think it's more about the registry and the competition to have the "best" set.

Yes, everyone likes to think the company they prefer has tighter standards and is more consistent etc. And everyone can find scans supporting the argument either way.

for what it's worth I sent a handful of modern cards to SGC on one of the specials since I was sending some old stuff as well. And despite being chosen for really good centering and corners and checked for flaws they didn't do as well as I'd hoped. Only 2 nines out of eight 81 Topps, and the 81 Donruss I thought was pretty much perfect only got an 84 The 91T Jones and 93 UD Jeters were all 88s.

Steve B

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Delray Vintage

so the sgc 96 mantle in heritage is worth 30k less than the psa 9? I looked at both cards high resolution and could not see a difference. Seems like whoever bought the SGC should at least try to submit to PSA. Cannot believe they would only get an 8, at least 8.5. Crazy to think the high value cards hinge so much on who graded them at PSA. Does PSA ever give the same grade to an SGC card submitted in the SGC holder?

I would assume whoever is selling the SGC Mantle has already tried to get it into a PSA 9 holder. They may not have cracked it out but I certainly would have sent it in if it were my card and I don't know why anyone else wouldn't.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I would assume whoever is selling the SGC Mantle has already tried to get it into a PSA 9 holder. They may not have cracked it out but I certainly would have sent it in if it were my card and I don't know why anyone else wouldn't.

I agree ....people aren't idiots...we aren't the 'only ones' that think we can get it cross graded

[skelly]

I know its been said a million times, but I just like the SGC cases so much more, and as a collector, that's the beauty of things, you can go with what you want. I feel like PSA is like Nike in a way. Well guess what, Nike doesn't fit me very well, so even though the general public isn't as familiar with Saucony, that's what I run in and they work great for me.

[CharleyBrown]

I've had pretty good luck cracking and crossing over from SGC to PSA... in fact only twice have I had a card not get bumped up by at least one grade.... though I usually stick with SGC40-80, and cards have only been in the $1-2k range.

[pcoz]

SGC is the one for me. Look at many of the E98's from Heritage with paperloss getting PSA 5's & 4's, where SGC would give those same cards 30's & 20's. I've seen many inconsistencies through the years in PSA holders. The PSA registry drives their prices, and their marketing has been better. But, to get an objective solid grade from people I trust, give me SGC. They'll also explain why they've given a card a certain grade. See if PSA would do that. If you can buy that 56 Mantle for 1/3 the price in an SGC holder, I'd say you stole it.

[Leon]

I had all of my collection graded by SGC. I think their holders look the best and they do a great job overall. If it were high grade 50s-70s I would have gone with PSA to try to sneer some Registry guys. Had it been newer shiny stuff I would have gone with Beckett.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by steve B

I really think it's more about the registry and the competition to have the "best" set.

Yes, everyone likes to think the company they prefer has tighter standards and is more consistent etc. And everyone can find scans supporting the argument either way.

for what it's worth I sent a handful of modern cards to SGC on one of the specials since I was sending some old stuff as well. And despite being chosen for really good centering and corners and checked for flaws they didn't do as well as I'd hoped. Only 2 nines out of eight 81 Topps, and the 81 Donruss I thought was pretty much perfect only got an 84 The 91T Jones and 93 UD Jeters were all 88s.

Steve B

SGC has a registry , so there are SGC registry guys..and in auction houses now you see them talk about SGC registries a lot.......I think whats important is how many set collectors are out there to grab commons and LOW Pop cards to give value to guys not named Mantle/mays/cobb etc...registry guys paying sick prices is overrated at least for post war....they know what they want to pay for cards because they are in it for the long haul...when I had 700 1952 topps PSA 8 cards to sell I knew of the main set collectors...contacted them before ebay to try direct deals and I know their ebay ids....maybe 10% of the time on ebay somebody from the top finished/unfinished sets would win the card.....its not all about the registry guys....it was funny though that I would be turned down in a direct deal and that same guy ends up winning the card on PWCC a few weeks later paying more than I asked...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

SGC has a registry , so there are SGC registry guys..and in auction houses now you see them talk about SGC registries a lot.......I think whats important is how many set collectors are out there to grab commons and LOW Pop cards to give value to guys not named Mantle/mays/cobb etc...registry guys paying sick prices is overrated at least for post war....they know what they want to pay for cards because they are in it for the long haul...when I had 700 1952 topps PSA 8 cards to sell I knew of the main set collectors...contacted them before ebay to try direct deals and I know their ebay ids....maybe 10% of the time on ebay somebody from the top finished/unfinished sets would win the card.....its not all about the registry guys....it was funny though that I would be turned down in a direct deal and that same guy ends up winning the card on PWCC a few weeks later paying more than I asked...

Yep, I'm on the SGC registry with the few old cards I graded. I thought I ended up putting the modern stuff on too, but didn't find it. Maybe the next time I have them out. All the 81 Topps were chosen by looking at what ones were tough in high grades at PSA. So the nines are low pop cards for sure. They're all low pop with SGC, I think at the time they were the only ones graded. More a function of hardly any 81T being done through SGC than anything else.

I do think PSA has far more competition on their registry, perhaps because they were earlier by a few years. And maybe because it works a bit better.

Passing on a private sale then paying more at auction.....I may never really understand the serious registry guys.

I will say that while I don't totally get the competition, I had a few pangs when adding my blank backs to my T206 set brought the average grade down a bunch. Not like I'm anywhere near the top, or ever will be, but I liked seeing my handful of cards average out so well. - Now I f I added all the others I have the average would be far lower.

[pkaufman]

I love SGC, but their Set Registry needs to be more user friendly to spur competition.

[familytoad]

Originally Posted by pkaufman

I love SGC, but their Set Registry needs to be more user friendly to spur competition.

Agreed, although I don't care about the competition as much as the difficult user interface for searching (amplified by using iPad) the SGC registry.

Despite the obvious inherent flaws in population reports, they are important to registry users and for the hobby overall.
That portion of SGC's service could use another big overhaul. If done better, that tool might be a differentiator for the company.

I see the SGC registry more as a tool for checklisting , since there appears to be less entire prewar sets collected than the Topps Bowman era.

Anyone who completes a prewar set at all has accomplished a big thing.
Completing a Topps set is exponentially easier , so the competition isn't about finishing the set, it's about getting high grade sets.

So, as many have said, there are 3 big TPG players, each of whom the collectors have settled them into their niche. ( I don't think the companies did that, their customers did...they wouldn't purposefully pigeon-hole themselves)

I am not surprised when a card that fits better with one of these companies' niche sells better when it stays *within the niche* and sells for less when it drifts from that perceived niche. That Topps SGC 96 and PSA 9 disparity doesn't surprise me. The cards aren't sealed permantly, so collectors can always use a different TPG if they want.