advice Michael Jordan

[theshleps]

not sure how he would have gone to Fall league got 1,000 cards signed and any were secretarial. All in ll I bought 10,000 cards from him and new him personally and this is the only one that has been questioned. All the others Jeter, Piazza, etc passed. I have been told that JSA routinely rejects Ali, Jordan etc. They recently rejected one I sent in and then I resent and it was approved by same authenticator. Just frustrating that they can reject real stuff which then becomes much harder to sell and at the same time autheiticate other items obviously fake
I trust people like Jim Stinson, Rich Simon etc much more and I have been collecting since 1967 and know a few things too. But the way it is you sometimes want to play the game to get a higher price
Once I get it back will post

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by theshleps

They recently rejected one I sent in and then I resent and it was approved by same authenticator.

Is there some type of refund you can get for this? That's insane. if I went to Burger King and ordered a cheeseburger and got a ham sandwich, would I have to pay for the wrong sandwich AND the replacement? Just another reason that third-party authentication is one of the worst things about this hobby.

In regards to them turning down modern guys like Harper, Trout, etc. I have a ton of in-person signatures that were signed before my eyes that I know would not pass because they don't look like the typical exemplar. How can so-called "experts" really be experts if they aren't aware of the hundreds of variations that can exist within one person's signature?

[packs]

People on this board told me they wouldn't believe my Koufax was signed by Koufax if I hadn't already said I had the ball signed myself. The doubt permeates every aspect of the hobby, not just TPA.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by packs

People on this board told me they wouldn't believe my Koufax was signed by Koufax if I hadn't already said I had the ball signed myself. The doubt permeates every aspect of the hobby, not just TPA.

True, but you didn't pay for the opinions of people on this board. In the case of TPA's, who charge a fee to provide a service, there should be no doubt. Otherwise why charge a premium for signatures that are slabbed? If the whole point is to "guarantee" authenticity, why even slab them to begin with if there's still doubt?

[packs]

I agree as well with your point. I feel as though if an opinion isn't rendered (i.e. they can't tell) then a refund is in order. But I also feel as though it is a benefit to buyers that TPA's are as strict as they are with highly forged signatures. But the change should be made to reflect that an I don't know is different than a No and in that case a refund should be made.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by dgo71

True, but you didn't pay for the opinions of people on this board. In the case of TPA's, who charge a fee to provide a service, there should be no doubt. Otherwise why charge a premium for signatures that are slabbed? If the whole point is to "guarantee" authenticity, why even slab them to begin with if there's still doubt?

There can never be "no doubt" unless you witnessed the signing yourself. The "guarantee" is that should ever an authenticated signature be proven fraudulent they will reimburse the cost you can prove you have in the item. I respect plenty of opinions on the board, but I doubt many if any would make you whole if they made a mistake.

[dgo71]

I completely understand that witnessing an item being signed is the only 100% way of proving authenticity. So by that same token, how could an authenticated signature ever be "proven" to be fraudulent? Why would "proof" of a fraudulent item be more iron-clad than "proof" of its authenticity? That's kind of my point, these are nothing more than opinions, and I don't see what makes a TPA's opinion worth the fees associated with their service or the mark-up on the re-sale of their authenticated items. If the main pro of a TPA is to offer peace of mind, and that peace of mind is really just an illusion at the end of the day, aren't they selling snake oil?

I mean, I get it from a seller's perspective, I can sell this DVD for $10, or I can put it in a fancy "special edition" tin with a couple knicky-knack bonuses and sell it for $30. But from a buyer's perspective I see TPA's as useless middlemen that only cause me to have to pay more for an item with the exact same assurance of authenticity of a raw item.

Sorry to go off topic OP!

[packs]

People may not like TPA's in their current state, but I believe there is a necessity to have a standard of opinion. Individuals who have been dealing for a long time are trusted resources. But there needs to be some third party standard set for the sake of buyers. A single person can be influenced.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by dgo71

How can so-called "experts" really be experts if they aren't aware of the hundreds of variations that can exist within one person's signature?

I agree with you totally on this subject. I and many serious autograph collectors and dealers have been saying this very thing for years.