What Is the Median Scarcity for Old Judge Poses?

slidekellyslide · #1 11-27-2015, 02:04 PM

My dad found 3 OJ's "in the wild" (new to the hobby)...early 1980s at an estate auction. I have found only 4 OJ's "in the wild" in probably 30 years of attending thousands of estate sales, garage sales, antique shows and flea markets. 50,000 is probably about right.

ctownboy · #2 11-27-2015, 04:49 PM

I have lived in Central Indiana for about 25 years now. About 20 years ago, I found nine Old Judges at an auction.

They were:

Anson, Chicago's
Ewing, fielding grounder
Rusie, pitching, hands at neck
Faatz, Cleveland
Klusman, Denver
Powell, Sioux City
Strauss, Omaha
Van Haltren, Chicago, NL
Williamson, Chicago, NL

About four years ago, I found one OJ common at an auction (I thought it sold for too much but I didn't have the OJ book at that time, so, who knows, it could have been a rare common).

Two years ago, there was a find of 17 OJ's in or around Indianapolis.

Of course, there was a LARGE find in 2006 by Dave of Dave's Vintage Cards of 215 OJ's originating somewhere in Indianapolis.

That is all I have found or heard of,

David

bbcard1 · #3 11-27-2015, 04:55 PM

I have a comiskey sliding, and a run of all poses Billy Sundays. It's been fun, but I'm probably happy where I am with them.

sandmountainslim · #4 11-27-2015, 05:01 PM

So all OJ owner's could safely say any given card they own is AS scarce if not more so than the T206 Wagner?

Joe_G. · #5 11-27-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandmountainslim

So all OJ owner's could safely say any given card they own is AS scarce if not more so than the T206 Wagner?

If you define it as known N172 copies of same variation, yes. In most cases, you could add up all known variations of a given pose and be well below pop report of T206 Wagner.

Among the OJ finds that come to mind of better than a hundred cards . . .

Dave Levin 2004 Oregon Find � 1400 OJs
Dave Levin 2006 Indy Find � 215 OJs
Goldin Auction 2013 Cambridge Find � 170 OJs (many other cards outside of OJ)

CW · #6 11-27-2015, 06:42 PM

Uh oh, 20 posts and no cards shown.

Here's a new arrival (I only have 6 OJs, no HOFers yet).

ctownboy · #7 11-27-2015, 07:23 PM

Hello again,

I got hung up with scanning my OJ's with my new scanner and forgot the rest, which was the point I was trying to make.

So, the point was this; living near Indianapolis, a large, older city which HAD a pro base ball team which HAD cards of its players issued in the OJ series, knowing or hearing about less than 250 OJ's being found in a 25 year time period should say something about the scarcity of the cards.

garymc · #8 04-11-2017, 08:18 AM

I have one "Old Judge" in my type collection. I picked this player because he was on the original 1903 Highlander team. I'm always looking in the bigger auctions for another pose to compliant and compare with my card. love the history of the cards, has a wonderful energy just holding one !!!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151843924@N04/albums

effe · #9 04-11-2017, 08:39 AM

My Milwaukee OJ collection currently is up to 22 different players/poses. I haven't been fussy about condition so the hunt has been a little easier, although it has been over 3 years since my last addition.

If you don't mind me asking what do Fa and Fb stand for?

And if you'd like to check them out I have all of them scanned on my website linked below.

shernan30 · #10 04-11-2017, 11:34 AM

I felt like throwing in my totals.

I sit at 28 plus 1 N173 of Al Buckenberger. Reading through this thread yesterday and today has revitalized my interest in OJs. Now to track down a few more for my Columbus base ball connection set. Only 88 more player/team combos to find. I may even start on a 2nd pose of the Columbus Solons players.

oldjudge · #11 04-11-2017, 12:14 PM

John--Great cards! Fa and Fb represent two series of Old Judge cards issued by Goodwin and Co in 1888. They are characterized by the first two lines in the text at the bottom being "Old Judge/ Cigarettes". The difference is the type size. If you have a copy of the Old Judge book it is all explained and illustrated in there. If not, in the current Sterling Auction, Lot 11 is a nice clear Fb.

oldjudge · #12 04-11-2017, 03:37 PM

I did a little reading about the 1888 Milwaukee team in Dennis Pajot's great book " The Rise of Milwaukee Baseball". Most of the info contained below is from that book.
1888 was the first year of the Western Association. Milwaukee, one of the founding members, hired Jim Hart as its' manager. The following was the team put together to start the season.

1B: Andy Cusick--Came from Phil NL
2B: Pat Pettee--Came from Salem, Eastern League
SS: Tom Forster--Was on Milwaukee NWL team in 1887
3B: Joe Strauss-- ". "
LF: Bobby Lowe--Came from Eau Claire in NWL
CF: David Davin--Came from Portland
RF: Leech Maskrey--Was on Milwaukee NWL team in 1887
C: Frank Mills-- " "
P: Alex Ferson--Came from Manchester, New Eng. League
P: Jack Horner: Came from Hamilton, Int'l League
P: John Struck: Came from Little Rock, SW League
P: Bill Shenkel: Was on Milwaukee NWL team in 1887
Sub: William Fuller: Came from Kalamazoo
Sub: Ed Warner: Came from Hamilton, Int'l League

Prior to 1888 none of these players had an Old Judge card. In mid-May Alex Ferson was released and pitcher George Stephens was added from the Hiawatha Club of Detroit.
In early June David Davin was released for excessive drinking and pitcher Henry Heup was picked up from the local Milwaukee Welcomes. Davin's month plus with Milwaukee earned him three Old Judge poses, all extremely rare today.
In mid-June Milwaukee added Jimmy McAleer from Memphis of the Southern League. Although McAleer has no known Milwaukee card, he earned five Old Judge poses as a member of Cleveland in 1889.
In late-June, Milwaukee made what turned out to be a great trade. They gave John Struck and $1000 for a pitcher from Bloomington, IL, future HOFer Clark Griffith. Griffith has no known 1888 Milwaukee card; Struck has one with his name, but Joe Strauss' image. When we did the Old Judge book we let the image on the card determine whose card it was; owners of the Yum Yum"Anson" may disagree with this methodology.They may consider that Struck has a card in the Old Judge set, albeit a so far unique one.
During July, Henry Heup and Andy Cusick were released. Cusick's time with the team earned him five Old Judge poses, all major rarities.
In early August, with the team struggling, Hart made quite a few moves. They released Pat Pettee, Tom Forster, Ed Warner and his prom date Jack Horner, and George Stephens. Added were William Crossley (C) from Davenport, John McCabe (2B) from Davenport, Bert Wilson (P) from Fremont in Ohio, Albert Fisher (SS) from Crawfordsville, and George Winkleman (P), William Hawes (1B) and Joe Walsh (SS), all from the folded team in Minneapolis. Stephens had four Old Judge poses from his time in Milwaukee, all rare, even though he neither started nor ended the season with them. Horner and Warner both received some Old Judge poses. Horner appeared for New Haven in 1889 and earned some team change Old Judge variations, all more common than his Milwaukee cards, but still pretty scarce. Ed Warner, even though he wandered through baseball with his friend and battery mate Warner, has no known New Haven cards; his Milwaukee cards are very rare. Tom Forster appeared in several Old Judge issues. As a member of the Metropoloisns he had an 1886 Spotted Tie. He has a few scarce Milwaukee cards in 1888, and a team change card with Hartford in 1889. Winkelman and Hawes had 1888 Minneapolis cards, but no known Milwaukee cards. Walsh earned his first cards as a member of Omaha in 1889.
The last player move of the year was the release of Albert Fisher in late-August.
I find this chronology interesting as it puts some history to the cards. Hopefully, some Milwaukee fans will find it interesting too.

oldjudge · #13 04-11-2017, 06:34 PM

Here is an image of the unique John Struck card.

Joe_G. · #14 04-11-2017, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by effe

My Milwaukee OJ collection currently is up to 22 different players/poses. I haven't been fussy about condition so the hunt has been a little easier, although it has been over 3 years since my last addition.

If you don't mind me asking what do Fa and Fb stand for?

And if you'd like to check them out I have all of them scanned on my website linked below.

Great collection John, all your 22 Milwaukee OJs, 100%, date to 1889 which isn't surprising. If you have a lot of collecting years left, maybe you can set a stretch goal of obtaining an 1888 example. If and when you obtain it, cherish it

Here is a cheat sheet I've posted previously on the old board to help study the differences between Fa, Fb, and Fc. Note how you cannot trust the printed copyrights on the card. They sometimes match the year the card is issued, sometimes match the date of the negative, sometimes match neither. For example, an 1889 Fc card might have an 1888 copyright but be based on an 1887 photoshoot.

tiger8mush · #15 04-11-2017, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garymc

I have one "Old Judge" in my type collection. I picked this player because he was on the original 1903 Highlander team. I'm always looking in the bigger auctions for another pose to compliant and compare with my card. love the history of the cards, has a wonderful energy just holding one !!!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151843924@N04/albums

Neat card Gary! I'm trying to get all of McGuire's poses (and variations) as well. Still a couple more to go ...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Old Judge - 2500+ poses & growing, but stable at 521 subjects	Joe_G.	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	10	01-24-2010 03:03 PM
New Old Judge Poses	oldjudge	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	12	11-01-2009 09:53 AM
New Old Judge Poses	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	10	09-09-2009 08:02 PM
N172 OLD JUDGE including oddities and raare poses	JasonD08	19th Century Cards & ALL Baseball Postcards- B/S/T	6	08-30-2009 03:36 PM
For Sale: N172 Old Judge 2-Player poses	Archive	19th Century Cards & ALL Baseball Postcards- B/S/T	0	09-06-2005 05:47 PM