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#1
12-14-2015, 02:01 PM
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No HOF For Pete
Just heard on the radio that there will be no HOF for Pete Rose. Bummer imo for such a great Baseball player.
__________________
Was collecting Next day newspaper article and earliest rookie ephemera/card of all 20th century no hit hurlers. 
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#4
12-14-2015, 06:13 PM
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I think he's done adequate penance, at this point. Let the punishment fit the crime. I would reinstate him.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-14-2015 at 06:13 PM.
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#6
12-14-2015, 07:21 PM
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I would put him in the Hall of Fame solely on the basis of two things he said. One, "I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball." Two, when asked why he was taking batting practice on a day off following a doubleheader in which he went 6 for 8, he said, "They got me out twice."
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#7
12-14-2015, 07:29 PM
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He is banned from baseball activity not the HOF according to the commissioner...
Later in that paragraph, Manfred concludes: The issue of whether Mr. Rose should be eligible for Hall of Fame election under the bylaws of that organization presents an entirely different policy determination that is focused on a range of considerations distinct from the more narrow question before me — i.e., whether I believe that Mr. Rose's reinstatement would be consonant with the policy rationale underlying Rule 21. Thus, any debate over Mr. Rose's eligibility for the Hall of Fame is one that must take place in a different forum. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...183831192.html
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#8
12-14-2015, 07:40 PM
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-14-2015 at 07:41 PM.
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#11
12-14-2015, 10:01 PM
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Keep the guy out.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President. Last edited by nolemmings; 12-15-2015 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Toning down language for the Holidays :)
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#12
12-14-2015, 10:09 PM
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He bet, he lied, he accepted his punishment.
He showed no remorse continuing to lie for decades. He made his bed, he has no one to blame but himself. Not the Commissioner, not the voters, not anyone but Pete. Keep him out - forever IMO.
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years."
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#13
12-15-2015, 12:09 AM
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They haven't let Jackson in, and it's been almost 100 years. I don't believe Rose will get in any sooner than that, and if I were to bet it would be on him never getting in.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others.
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#14
12-15-2015, 02:03 AM
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One of my favorite players as a kid. Even had one of those big Sports Illustrated posters of him hanging in my room for years. My first year collecting baseball cards was 1982 and I remember being thrilled by all the Rose cards in the Topps set that year (I believe he had 5 total).
I was all for lifting the suspension until I saw several reports that stated that he is still betting on baseball and initially lied to Manfred about it. If that's the case then I say Kudos to Manfred. So he said "I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball." but he won't quit betting on the sport to help him get the reinstatement he claims he wants so bad. It's shame he isn't in the Hall but I really feel he has nobody to blame but himself at this point. Last edited by cardsfan73; 12-15-2015 at 02:22 AM.
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#15
12-15-2015, 07:31 AM
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Who cares if he is betting on baseball today? Does somebody have to be a good guy or have no vices to make the HOF? Millions of people bet on baseball. He has already served a sentence far disproportionate to his relevant offense. Is he a jerk? Sure, but so what? Too much sanctimony for me.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-15-2015 at 07:33 AM.
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#17
12-15-2015, 07:36 AM
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#19
12-15-2015, 09:10 AM
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#20
12-15-2015, 09:24 AM
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Well I would say the only reason we don't know for sure if he threw any games is because he's constantly lying about what he did or didn't do. So his own actions serve to cast doubt on his story. Everything happening to him is his own doing.
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#21
12-15-2015, 09:44 AM
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#22
12-15-2015, 10:04 AM
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__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President. Last edited by nolemmings; 12-15-2015 at 10:05 AM.
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#23
12-15-2015, 10:08 AM
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#24
12-15-2015, 10:26 AM
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Yeah, I'm sure he never planned anything out. Probably bet a couple large then noticed he had his #4 starter going against the other team's ace. Oh well.
And if he was close to winning but it meant he had to bring his closer in for the second straight game and he was betting tomorrow's game but not today's, I'm sure that had no influence on him. Because you know, it's all speculation and he deserves the benefit of every doubt.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President. Last edited by nolemmings; 12-15-2015 at 10:46 AM.
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#25
12-15-2015, 10:53 AM
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-15-2015 at 10:55 AM.
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#26
12-15-2015, 11:05 AM
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I could not disagree more. When there is a clear and unequivocal prohibition against gambling, you are on notice. When others before you have been banned for life for violating that prohibition, you are on notice. When you admit that you bet on baseball, you are guilty of violating that prohibition. That admission has not been recanted, and ample other evidence supports the finding of guilt. Add to that the fact that he agreed to his own punishment, and it's even harder to make a case for him.
And now, he admits he STILL bets on baseball, when the rule STILL exists that you may not do so. So it's any kind of surprise that he is not allowed to hold a MLB position? He has not changed, is not remorseful or contrite (other than about his own plight), and is still not forthright. I see zero points in his favor for reinstatement.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#27
12-15-2015, 11:08 AM
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How many guys were on notice that PEDs were banned yet took them repeatedly and admitted to it? Do you want to punt them? PED use has effed up the integrity of the game a hell of a lot more than Pete Rose as manager betting on his own team to win, or Pete Rose as civilian with no role at all betting.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-15-2015 at 11:09 AM.
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#28
12-15-2015, 11:10 AM
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Didn't he admit to betting on the Reds but with the caveat that he never bet on them to lose? That's BS and even if it's not, it draws a clear line toward manipulating a game's outcome due to your personal bet on a game. That's why gambling isn't allowed. No one faults a guy for winning. But if your motivation is to win more money as opposed to competing, you are breaking cardinal rules.
And that's only IF you believe him that he didn't bet against his own team. Which is something people don't have any reason to believe because he lies about everything. Last edited by packs; 12-15-2015 at 11:12 AM.
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#30
12-15-2015, 11:14 AM
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__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#31
12-15-2015, 11:18 AM
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#32
12-15-2015, 11:24 AM
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I think there's a big difference between PED use and betting on games. PED use doesn't necessarily create a pre-determined outcome. If you're the manager of a baseball team and you're betting on your own games, then an argument can be made that the game you're betting on is a sham. If you bet on your team to lose, you're going to try to lose. And like I said, there's no reason to believe Rose when he says he never bet on the Reds to lose. He is a compulsive liar.
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#33
12-15-2015, 11:34 AM
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Did you not see that he continues to engage in the very conduct that is prohibited under MLB rules? No contrition, no rehabilitation, repeated lying and disparagement of others all those years while he steadfastly denied his guilt and impugned his accusers --even a dead man. Why in the hell should this guy be allowed back in the game? What on Earth makes you think he would not continue to bet on baseball?
If you're so bothered by his absence from the HOF, make your pitch there. It is not disingenuous to have that body change its stance on who it deems eligible; in fact, I would argue that it is easier and invokes less potential heartburn for the game if that body were to change rather than to expect MLB to loosen its rules or allow this continuing fool to have any kind of official or acknowledged position in the game. EDITED TO ADD: Peter, I just saw an earlier post where you say who cares if he still bets on baseball? That is a total non-starter, not just with me but I would guess nearly everyone. Dear MLB, change your rules that prohibit your members from betting on baseball? Why? I dunno. Ask Peter Spaeth.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President. Last edited by nolemmings; 12-15-2015 at 11:43 AM.
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#34
12-15-2015, 11:46 AM
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I am all for Rose being banned forever. The punishment does fit the crime.
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#35
12-15-2015, 11:52 AM
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And I don't care if he bets on baseball now. What possible difference can it make if Pete Rose bets on a game? By the way Gaylord Perry probably broke the rules every time he pitched, were you against his induction? And answer me please about ARod. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-15-2015 at 11:54 AM.
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#36
12-15-2015, 12:18 PM
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I have no idea what you're asking about Arod, and I don't really care. Arod was accused of engaging in conduct prohibited under a collectively bargained labor agreement. The process and potential punishments were spelled out and agreed to by labor and management. He went through the process, and even challenged it in court. A decision was made that comported with the law and the CBA. Issue over.
If Pete Rose wants to challenge his treatment in court, I say go for it big fella. Similarly, if he wants to have the players bargain next time around for the right to bet on baseball or for certain specified lesser punishments if they are found to have bet, or even for any kind of retroactive relief for Pete himself, he can focus his energies there. Good luck with that.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#37
12-15-2015, 12:32 PM
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You're missing the forest for the trees, and framing the issue in a misleading way. Obviously the collective bargaining agreement has nothing to do with Rose's situation from a literal point of view. And nobody is suggesting Rose has any recourse, legal or otherwise. Straw man argument. My point is simply one of what I view as fundamental fairness, and I believe the ARod case for all its differences suggests, at the level of the forest (not the trees), that Rose has been punished enough for what he did.
Now, answer my question, do you believe Gaylord Perry should be in the Hall of Fame, or not, and why? Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-15-2015 at 12:34 PM.
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#38
12-15-2015, 01:16 PM
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No it is not strawman argument. No I will not keep answering your questions about other players. Call me fundamentally unfair. I could not care less.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#39
12-15-2015, 01:20 PM
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#40
12-15-2015, 01:29 PM
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Yes indeed.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#41
12-15-2015, 01:37 PM
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Does the HOF not feel incomplete without Pete? It is almost becoming laughable as to who is in and who is not allowed or not getting voted in. How can you have a HOF without the all time HR and Hits leaders?
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#42
12-15-2015, 01:50 PM
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he deserves to be in the hall. shouldn't be such a popularity contest.
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#43
12-15-2015, 07:52 PM
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I have no issue with keeping Pete out of baseball, I do have issue with keeping him out of the Hall of Fame, and as long as Pete is not enshrined, I will never step foot or spend a single dollar in the HOF.
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#44
12-15-2015, 11:18 PM
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Also from what I understand they let him know that if he stayed away from gambling and other questionable activities that would really help his case on getting the ban lifted. I just don't think it's really to important to ol Charlie Hustle, I think what's important to him is making a buck.
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#45
12-16-2015, 06:13 AM
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That's a good point. Why should people get so lathered up about this when it doesn't even matter to Pete enough to make an effort to modify his behavior. Of course it can be a Hall of Fame w/o him, it is every day and will continue to be. He is much more a pathetic as opposed to sympathetic figure to me.
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years."
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#46
12-16-2015, 09:03 AM
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After thinking about it a bit maybe Pete should be thankfull that he is not being handed the keys to the Hall Of Fame or maybe it should be the Hall Of Shame.. Here is a little article about the Booze Guzzling, Pill Popping, Racist, Womenizers who are all Hall Of Famers adored by millions of baseball fans...
Yup Pete maybe it's a blessing you are not being recognized as one of the greatest to play the game.. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/sp...famy.html?_r=0
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#47
12-16-2015, 10:50 AM
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The problem with those types of articles is that they try to justify or rationalize Rose breaking the Cardinal rule of baseball by setting up a strawman and claiming that other people in the Hall of Fame are even worse. Where is the prohibition in major league clubhouses against the various acts committed by other players? The prohibition against betting on games is crystal clear and explicit. Last edited by Bored5000; 12-16-2015 at 10:50 AM.
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#48
12-16-2015, 06:14 PM
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#49
12-16-2015, 06:37 PM
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I fall on the side of it being the "baseball" hall of fame not the "personality and upstanding moral character" hall of fame.
To leave out the all time hits leader, home run record holders, arguably the best pitcher in history, and others in a misguided attempt to legislate character takes the credibility of this being a shrine to the "greatest to play the game" and rumples it like a ball of discarded paper into a trash bin. Do I like them all? Hell no. Should the best to play the game be in the hall of fame no matter what? Hell yes.
__________________
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#50
12-16-2015, 07:00 PM
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