Starting out in vintage football

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

If you're reading this, it is probably your fault I am doing this . I am going to take a swing at vintage football. Thinking of beginning with 1964 Philadelphia first and 1955 All American a little later. I hope to have something to share as I go.

[Laxcat]

Good luck and have fun. The 55 AA is a great set. If you like college football then go for the '51 topps Magic as well. The Felts are neat looking but are quite difficult to find. A '56 is a good way to start. Or, you could start with the big guns, '65 Namath '52 Lansford or Johnston, and work your way out from there. There are a bunch of sets that don't even come close to touching the value of their baseball counterpart.

I don't think that will hold much longer. Football'spopularity is growing and growing. We just need some great books written about the good old days and the prices of these cards will jump.

Of course my opinion is a little biased. I've been collecting vintage football for a little while now.

[jefferyepayne]

Very cool, Robert! Looking forward to seeing what sets you decide to focus on.

Raw or graded? What condition level are you going after?

jeff

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

If you're reading this, it is probably your fault I am doing this . I am going to take a swing at vintage football. Thinking of beginning with 1964 Philadelphia first and 1955 All American a little later. I hope to have something to share as I go.

Have fun with it Robert!
Larry

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Matt, I do like college football! The other sets you mentioned will probably be a target of mine sooner or later. Seeing the '55 Topps All Americans that some of you guys have shared really makes me want them. It is shocking how affordable most of vintage football is compared to baseball. Even if football prices edged up, they still have a long way to go to cease being really affordable. I will still do a little with some baseball, but the prices on the vgex-EXMT stuff I buy are so static that I feel like I could come back to baseball in a year or two and not much would have changed. So, why not go off and have a little more affordable set building fun in football?

Jeff, I figure I will start off with '64 Philadelphia...there is something about that set that really interests me. It is somewhat plain, but I like it. Like I was telling Matt, '55 Topps AA might not be too far behind. I have also noticed several other Topps sets i like. I am not a high roller, this is something that is just fun for me. I work cards in while taking care of the family, paying the mortgage, etc. Most of my stars will be graded and commons ungraded. I imagine most 60s sets would be ex to nm. When backing up into the 50s, I could live with vgex or even crease free vg.

You guys just keep on posting and providing that motivation!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Thanks, Larry! I enjoyed reading the acquisitions thread and watching all of your progress!

[S_GERACE]

Hi Robert,
Good luck on your venture into vintage FB cards. Below is a link to a website that you may find very informative and interesting.

http://www.nearmintcards.com/blog/ab...ootball-cards/

Take care & keep us posted on your progress,
Scott

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Scott,

What an excellent resource! I am going to read it all and bookmark it for future reference. Thanks for letting me know about it.

In some of my earlier posts I mentioned maybe starting with 1964 Philadelphia or 1955 Topps AA. Another set I am loving is the 1952 Bowman Large. I was initially scared off by the Lansford card listing at $3000 in Beckett, but I have seen decent copies on ebay for much, much less. What I like about that set is the color, and I love the way the team logos look (especially the Rams). so, that might be another way to go. Of course, i could accomplish much the same with Bowman Small for a lot less money. There are a ton of ways to go! This could be fun...

What are your current projects? Matt, Jeff, and Larry (and everyone else), same for you. What are you all collecting right now? Do you guys like graded or ungraded? Condition wise do you go for high grade cards or lower grade cards?

For those of you building vintage football sets, are you extremely conscious about condition, or are you content to complete these sets?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

What are your current projects? Matt, Jeff, and Larry (and everyone else), same for you. What are you all collecting right now? Do you guys like graded or ungraded? Condition wise do you go for high grade cards or lower grade cards?

For those of you building vintage football sets, are you extremely conscious about condition, or are you content to complete these sets?

For me, most of my sets are raw and range from VG to NM. I like to look at them and that's much easier in binders than if I had a ton of plastic. I have been slowly upgrading the stars / rookies in my sets to graded cards as I see good deals. Some of these sets I put together long ago and they are in rough shape so I try to upgrade cards in them when I'm at shows and there are binders / discount boxes. Trying to get rid of all creases in my cards over time.

I'm working on lots of different projects at once as I like to scour ebay and auctions every day. Here are a few of my on-going projects:

1. Upgrading my raw Topps AA set from G/VG to all PSA 8's just because I really like this set. Just started this effort so have a long way to go.
2. Upgrading my National Chicle set to at least PSA 7's
3. Upgrading my Mayo set to at least SGC 50's
4. Working on a run of NFL Championship team photos from 1920 - 1969 ... first 50 years of the NFL
5. Working on my first autographed card set ... Topps AA
6. Working on lots and lots of regional, odd ball, and team sets outside of the mainstream cards sets... much of this stuff is really hard to find so progress is slow
7. Actively looking for items associated with Red Grange, Jim Thorpe, Ernie Nevers, and Bronko Nagurski as I collect items specifically for these players too. Cards, RPPCs, vintage photos, matchbooks, memorabilia, etc.
8. Team photos of every college national championship team up until 1930.

jeff

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

What are your current projects? Matt, Jeff, and Larry (and everyone else), same for you. What are you all collecting right now? Do you guys like graded or ungraded? Condition wise do you go for high grade cards or lower grade cards?For those of you building vintage football sets, are you extremely conscious about condition, or are you content to complete these sets?

I'm a pre '81 set builder (baseball football basketball hockey) and I collect cards in (affordable) P-VG condition. On the football front I've finished my Philadelphia sets, I need about twenty cards to finish my Fleer run, twenty-two cards (mostly '72 Topps high numbers) to complete my Topps run, and 103 cards for my Bowman run. Lately I've been concentrating on my '52 Bowman Large and Small sets. Almost all of my collection is raw cards stored in boxes.
Larry

[Laxcat]

I started with the 70's Topps sets. The '72 is far and away the most difficult to complete. I have most of my sets(48-79) in the 85% to complete range. My main focus now: some of the SP's from the '52 large and I would like to pick up some more prewar football. I keep hoping to run into some at a show, but eBay and this forum have been my best avenue for picking stuff up.

Good choice with the Philly sets. Good clean photography, RC's that topps doesn't have, and the sets aren't too big.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Hi Robert, Great news you are diving in! Looking forward to seeing your progress.

My only real card project right now is the Chicle set. I'm 5 cards away, but I'm also working on upgrades at the same time as some nice ones have become available recently at relatively low prices (relative to where they were recently at least). Also looking forward to some time around the holidays to finally finish putting my best of each example from the 84 Topps set (pulled this from packs as a kid) into binders (that's an out of town project - started last Christmas). I only had to buy 1 card from eBay to finish, but I think I still need some inserts - heading into the home stretch on that one at least. No plans to upgrade as I want the ones I collected.

I also really like early NFL and semi-pro (specifically Ohio teams like the Tanks and Armcos) history (specifically 1920-1939). Other than the Chicle set and a few scattered single NFL players here and there (Star Player Candy, Spalding, some strip cards), one would have to dive into other collectables like matchbooks, photos, programs, etc. and I'm not sure if I'll take that plunge yet. Maybe someday.

As a kid in the 1980's I sat at a used book store filing thru boxes of loose miscellaneous cards to gather pre-1976 football for a couple summers. I managed to cobble together an entire 1976 set at 1 penny a card this way. I did not collect baseball because they were 2 or 3 cents. These cards are in PR-G condition, a lot of my cards from the 1970's are beloved beaters.

Fast forward thirty years and the cards are no longer a penny apiece , but I still enjoy set building. While I have been tempted to buy an entire set at auction before (SSA's recent '51 Bowman's set was real nice) I prefer the process. I typically buy large partial sets at auction in the VG/EX range raw. I enjoy trading for commons, and purchase graded stars with good eye appeal, 3-4 cards per set. Usually working on a half dozen sets at any time. My earlier sets 1959-1972 are in much better condition than those I gathered as a youth, but hard to say which I like more in the collection.

Most importantly, have fun!

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

Larry

I used to keep all of my sets in boxes as well, Larry. Very good for maintaining them but not so great for looking at them without handling them. I would occasionally nick on of my cards while handling them.

A while back I started moving sets to binders sloooowly and have made quite a bit of progress. Of course the valuable stuff is in the bank but these are some of my football sets I keep around to look at.



jeff

[sockwell123]

Best of luck with your collecting!

Jeff - Looks like you're fixing to need another cabinet to hold more binders. Very nice sir.

[Beansballcardblog]

Welcome to the world of vintage football. I just got into it this year myself. I'm working to complete the 1955 All-American set. Once I get it completed, I will work to upgrade. A lot of the ones I have are very low grade. I have my set scanned into a flickr folder, so if I'm at a show or shop, I can take a quick look online at my set and figure out if I need an upgrade.

It's the first vintage set I've tried to put together. Honestly, it may be the only one I ever do, as the others I'd really be interested in are well out of my price range.

At the end of the day, it's all about fun!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001

Welcome to the world of vintage football. I just got into it this year myself. I'm working to complete the 1955 All-American set. Once I get it completed, I will work to upgrade. A lot of the ones I have are very low grade. I have my set scanned into a flickr folder, so if I'm at a show or shop, I can take a quick look online at my set and figure out if I need an upgrade.

It's the first vintage set I've tried to put together. Honestly, it may be the only one I ever do, as the others I'd really be interested in are well out of my price range.

At the end of the day, it's all about fun!

That '55 Topps AA is a really great set. That is one that I wouldn't mind building. However, I am having trouble deciding where I want to start. I am thinking about (in no particular order):

1. '55 Topps All-American
2. '52 Bowman (probably small--really like the color and team logos)
3. '64 Philly (very affordable, plain design but I like it)
4. '61 Fleer (I really like those Fleer designs...especially the team logos)
5. '56 Topps
6. '68 Topps

I also am intrigued by '57 and '58 Topps.

I am new to this and am overwhelmed because so many of the sets are so doable. I know I just need to get in somewhere and go. You guys make all of them look so appealing. I could build most of the 60s stuff (not '65) in pretty high grade. Even some of the '50s stuff I could do decent mid-grade.

Somebody focus me, please!

[jefferyepayne]

What I did when starting to work on completing the mainstream sets was watch on ebay for reasonable larger lots of cards from one of the sets I was interested in and, if I happened to win one for a good price, I figured that was an omen and I'd work to finish it before moving on to another.

You might do that same thing as a way to decide what to work on first from the list you came up with!

jeff

[Beansballcardblog]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

What I did when starting to work on completing the mainstream sets was watch on ebay for reasonable larger lots of cards from one of the sets I was interested in and, if I happened to win one for a good price, I figured that was an omen and I'd work to finish it before moving on to another.

You might do that same thing as a way to decide what to work on first from the list you came up with!

jeff

I definitely agree there. That's what got me started (for the second time) on my All-American set.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by sockwell123

Jeff - Looks like you're fixing to need another cabinet to hold more binders. Very nice sir.

Yeah, but a little late ;-) Need another cabinet ASAP!



jeff

[LuckyLarry]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

A while back I started moving sets to binders sloooowly and have made quite a bit of progress. jeff

Jeff: A couple years ago I tossed all my binders and moved my cards to boxes. I use "penny sleeves" when I can, which does help when I handle them. Binders just took up to much room.
Larry

[Samsdaddy]

I personally like my cards in individual Card Saver 1's. Now, I don't have as near as many cards as you all here so it is easier for me to have them this way. I always found the sheets sagged somewhat and cards could get bent.
Plus, having them in Card Saver 1's is the closest thing to having them as a kid in piles looking through them one at a time and being able to handle them without damaging them.

All that being said, for what it is worth, I am working on my second set from the 60s, 1967 Topps Football, raw. I picked this set because it is the year of my birth and I love the old AFL. Plus, at a 132 cards with the limited funds I have, makes it a very doable set for me.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Ok, fellas, I have the '69 Topps set and after a few upgrades it will be a solid set. I am thinking over my next move and have been researching, number crunching, etc. There are several '60s sets that I like (64 Philadelphia, 68 Topps, 61 Fleer to name a few) and could build in exmt/nm grade. However, I can't quit looking at the early Bowman sets. One reason that I wanted to try vintage football was the affordability factor relative to baseball. If I went the Bowman route, the cards wouldn't be as sharp. I would be aiming more at crease free VGEX to ex. The first of the Bowman sets I think I would want to go after might be '51 Bowman. It has 144 cards and I don't think it would cost anymore to build in mid grade than the 220 card 1961 Fleer set would in high grade. Also, the more I look, the more iconic the Bowmans look to me.

What do you guys think? You all have been in the football circuit for much longer than me. I feel like there is good value in vintage football. I just feel like a late arriver and want to build sets that I like before the values rise and they aren't any more affordable than baseball.

When I first started thinking about vintage football, I really looked at the 60s and saw the opportunity to collect lots of stars for not much money, again relative to baseball. However, now I may be drawn to the early 50s Bowmans. They are not as inexpensive as the 60s material, but I guess relative to early 50s baseball (again) they aren't too bad.

I know I went around and around there, but I hope you guys get the jist. Thoughts?

[revmoran]

I personally think a goof foundation of any vintage football collection is the 1955 Topps All Americans - it is affordable and gives the history of the game in a single set - one of my favorites and was my gateway to the Chicle set.

[DBesse27]

I don't care for the All American set.

Regarding early 50s bowman vs early 60s fleer, that's a tough call I love both runs, but I think I give the slight edge to the older Bowmans.

Since you are looking to put together a higher end 60's set have you taken a peek at the '62 topps? My favorite of the 60's by far, but darn those black borders. I understand your interest in the '61 fleers, a mighty good looking set. Centering was a problem as I accumulated the '68s, especially with the thin line borders around the cards, though a nice set with both leagues. To be frankly honest all the Philadelphia sets look like Wonder Bread inserts to me, but I'm probably in the minority with that opinion.

Most importantly, have fun!

[jefferyepayne]

All great sets, Robert! It really gets down to what you are personally drawn too. All of the Bowman sets are classics so you can't go wrong there and there's so many nice sets in the 60s that you've got a lot of options.

Football is definitely more affordable than baseball so why not do two ... one Bowman set and one 60s set? That'll keep you busy for a while and I have a feeling you're gonna end up doing them both anyway

jeff

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Since you are looking to put together a higher end 60's set have you taken a peek at the '62 topps? My favorite of the 60's by far, but darn those black borders. I understand your interest in the '61 fleers, a mighty good looking set. Centering was a problem as I accumulated the '68s, especially with the thin line borders around the cards, though a nice set with both leagues. To be frankly honest all the Philadelphia sets look like Wonder Bread inserts to me, but I'm probably in the minority with that opinion.

Most importantly, have fun!

Ty, I have looked at those '62s, and they are beautiful. While I think I will build it someday, I would rather have a '51 Bowman and/or a '61 Fleer set first. Those black borders are tough! Those '62s might take a while to build a really nice set.

Jeff, your thought of doing both is plausible, and you are probably right about my doing them both anyway. I have always been a one at a time guy for the most part, but if I could stay focused, I think I could do it. I am thinking of doing the Fleer in slightly higher grade than the Bowmans.

In baseball collecting, I usually went with nice commons that were ungraded (and cheaper) and most of my stars were graded. However, at least with '61 Fleer, the sharp ungraded commons I have seen aren't much less than the PSA 7s. This has surprised me and has made me think about building that set in all 7s or better. With the '51 Bowman, I could see myself using a mixture of graded/ungraded, with it being a crease free vgex to ex set.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Since you are looking to put together a higher end 60's set have you taken a peek at the '62 topps? My favorite of the 60's by far, but darn those black borders. I understand your interest in the '61 fleers, a mighty good looking set. Centering was a problem as I accumulated the '68s, especially with the thin line borders around the cards, though a nice set with both leagues. To be frankly honest all the Philadelphia sets look like Wonder Bread inserts to me, but I'm probably in the minority with that opinion.

Most importantly, have fun!

Ty, your comments made me go back and look at some 62s again. They are sweet! But those black borders! That is one set that I would have to build in high grade because that is one set that mid grade might not work for because of the black borders.

[PowderedH2O]

Have you considered 1956 Topps? At 120 cards, it isn't a beast. The cards are nice. The set has some HOF rookies, but none that will break the bank. I completed it in Ex Mint in just a few months, and my budget is very limited. Plus, it has the distinctions of being Topps' first NFL set, and the last large card design. For someone just starting out, it offers a lot.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by PowderedH2O

Have you considered 1956 Topps? At 120 cards, it isn't a beast. The cards are nice. The set has some HOF rookies, but none that will break the bank. I completed it in Ex Mint in just a few months, and my budget is very limited. Plus, it has the distinctions of being Topps' first NFL set, and the last large card design. For someone just starting out, it offers a lot.

Sam, 56 Topps is a good looking set...one that I have overlooked. Thanks for reminding me of it. They are nice looking cards. Like you said, it would be very attainable.

[jiw98]

I have completed the 69-72 Topps football sets all in EXMT-NRMT condition. The 72 set took around 3 years and was a lot of fun. I looked everywhere to find the high numbers in the condition I wanted. I looked at every card shop I could find during my travels across the country. I also looked at antique shops. Sometimes those out of the way antique shops have some nice finds. I was going to continue going back and do the 68 set, but I was at a show and got such a good deal on a lot of 80 cards from 55 Bowman baseball that I decided to do that set. I am currently 80% complete. After the 55 baseball set, its back to football.