HOF is a Joke

Bruinsfan94 · #1 01-06-2016, 10:20 PM

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

egbeachley · #2 01-06-2016, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

WAR is WAR if it is calculated correctly which means rule changes are considered.

But if WAR is the true determination of value, then WAR above a certain number means you are in. Case closed. Just pick a number and voters are no longer necessary.

trdcrdkid · #3 01-07-2016, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

I know we have a lot of 1800's guys here so can someone explain why Mcarthy is in the Hall? Clearly WAR can't be used as the end all be all, since the game is about as different as you can get then how it was played then.

McCarthy and Hugh Duffy were known as the "Heavenly Twins" when they starred for the championship Boston teams of the early 1890s, and were commonly linked together as good players who were also innovators in the way the game was played. McCarthy was widely thought to have invented the hit-and-run play, though modern research has shown that he did not actually do so. (He did probably help popularize it, and other tricks such as deliberately trapping balls in the outfield to force out a runner.)

McCarthy and Duffy were voted into the HOF in 1945-46 by the Veterans' Committee during a two-year period when the Hall inducted 21 new members, following a six-year break during World War II when it only inducted two. These 21 men inducted in 1945-46 were mostly from the 19th century and the dead-ball era, and they included several other players besides McCarthy whose qualifications might be questioned by modern observers, but who were seen at the time as pioneers or important figures in their day. These include Roger Bresnahan (a pretty good player who is basically in the HOF for inventing shin guards); Joe Tinker, Johnny Evers, and Frank Chance (all pretty good players on championship teams, stars in their day, but in the HOF for a poem); and Jack Chesbro (who had one monster year and several other very good ones, but who only pitched nine full seasons, and is in the HOF mainly for having the post-1900 record for single-season wins). Hugh Duffy arguably belongs in this group as well; he's a more legitimate HOFer than McCarthy, though not a slam-dunk by the numbers (.326 lifetime BA in a hitter's era, 43.0 lifetime WAR in 14 full seasons), and a big reason for his induction was probably his record for highest single-season batting average.

53Browns · #4 01-07-2016, 06:57 AM

I agree with Bill James, McCarthy is the worst player in the HOF. IMHO.

Rookiemonster · #5 01-07-2016, 08:28 AM

All time hit king not in

All time homerun King not in

7 time cy young award winner not in

So who is in ? Sure some greats are in of course but without these guys
What is the hall of fame ?

RaidonCollects · #6 01-07-2016, 08:33 AM

George Kelly...

ksabet · #7 01-07-2016, 09:17 AM

Its not the Hall...THE VETERANS COMMITTEE IS THE WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF HALLS!!!

If it were up to me every single veterans committee inductee would have their own wing and not be considered a HOFer

There is absolutely no need for this. If you didn't get in when you were eligible thats it.

Can someone tell me seriously why this exists?

wolf441 · #8 01-07-2016, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksabet

Its not the Hall...THE VETERANS COMMITTEE IS THE WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF HALLS!!!

If it were up to me every single veterans committee inductee would have their own wing and not be considered a HOFer

There is absolutely no need for this. If you didn't get in when you were eligible thats it.

Can someone tell me seriously why this exists?

I agree that the Veterans Committee is the worst thing that happened to the HOF historically. But, I think there should be some way of taking a 2nd look at players that didn't make the cut, for whatever reason.

In my mind, Tim Raines is a Hall of Famer, but might not make it through. Guys from the late 60's/early 70's voting like Hafey, Ferrell, George Kelly, Bancroft, Rixey should be pulled out of the Hall (as should Frankie Frisch for railroading all these players in).

glchen · #9 01-07-2016, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksabet

Its not the Hall...THE VETERANS COMMITTEE IS THE WORST THING IN THE HISTORY OF HALLS!!!

If it were up to me every single veterans committee inductee would have their own wing and not be considered a HOFer

There is absolutely no need for this. If you didn't get in when you were eligible thats it.

Can someone tell me seriously why this exists?

The Veterans Committee exists because the baseball writers can be very biased. Seriously, it's common knowledge that writers won't vote for players for the HOF if the players wouldn't give them the time of day. Seriously, where in the criteria for the Hall of Fame does it say that you need to suck up to the writers? The writers should just vote based on the play on the field rather than the extracurricular stuff. One can argue that the Veteran's Committee has better voters because some of them are at least players already in the HOF.

keithsky · #10 01-07-2016, 09:29 AM

To me the HOF election process is a joke. If a player doesn't get in in say the first 3 years of eligibility then he should be out. His stats stopped when he stopped playing and don't get any better so how can a guy not get voted and then in 7,8,or 10 years later be all of a sudden good enough to be a HOFer. Makes absolutely no sense. Just cause maybe there is not a good class of guys for a certain year they seem to say this guy is ok since there isn't anybody good for the year so lets put him in. Give the guy 3 years on the ballet then maybe 2 years on the veterans committee and then your done. If you don't make it in 5 years that is enough. Why drag it out for 10 years or more.

SAllen2556 · #11 01-07-2016, 10:24 AM

I would love to see a survey of mlb players who played during Trammell and Whitaker's era to see what they think. I have always gone back and forth, and I watched them both for 20 years. Same with Jack Morris. I thought I read once that Reggie Jackson thought Morris was the best pitcher of that era.

The Tigers had the 2nd most wins in all of baseball during the 80's and won it all in '84. Seems like someone on those teams would be hall-of-fame worthy. And I can't think of anyone who played for the Tigers in the 80's who's in the hall-of-fame.

bigtrain · #12 01-07-2016, 10:59 AM

The Baseball Hall of Fame is imperfect but it is not a joke. It is the most exclusive in sports. No ten players at a time like in Canton. The Veteran's Committee has made some bad choices, notably when Frank Frisch and Bill Terry got seven of their teammates elected. Admittedly, there are probably two dozen players who I would remove from the Hall and most were put in by the Veteran's Committee but there have been some good choices as well. (ie. Sam Crawford, Zach Wheat, John Clarkson and others) The rules have changed and it is much more difficult to get in through the committee. That is as it should be.

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