HOF results

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A little more power, but relatively consistent with his regular season stats where he had a 162 game average of 22-98-/297

Yes that's true but you're not factoring in the importance of the games he played in. The guy was a winner. He's who I want in centerfield if I'm trying to win a championship. If I want a guy to play well all year and crap out when I need him most I'll look elsewhere. Anyway we're getting away from the central point I was trying to make which was that I don't need a stat sheet to tell me about a player I watched. Your JAWS, WAR, and anything else you want to throw in means nothing to me if I saw the player and we can discuss the player independent of those stats.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Yes that's true but you're not factoring in the importance of the games he played in. The guy was a winner. He's who I want in centerfield if I'm trying to win a championship. If I want a guy to play well all year and crap out when I need him most I'll look elsewhere. Anyway we're getting away from the central point I was trying to make which was that I don't need a stat sheet to tell me about a player I watched. Your JAWS, WAR, and anything else you want to throw in means nothing to me if I saw the player and we can discuss the player independent of those stats.

I am not saying anything against Williams, as I said I liked him a lot. But my point is that impressions, memories, etc. are subjective and don't always hold up to reality.

[packs]

Of course not but we're talking about players who retired less than 10 years ago. Memory isn't that fluid. And like I said, when you look back on the game as an old man, are you bringing up WAR? Is that how you want to remember a player like Griffey? Can't we talk about what we saw on the field?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Of course not but we're talking about players who retired less than 10 years ago. Memory isn't that fluid. And like I said, when you look back on the game as an old man, are you bringing up WAR? Is that how you want to remember a player like Griffey? Can't we talk about what we saw on the field?

Of course, but when the question is raised who is better, X or Y, I think the argument will be made far more persuasively with statistics than memories.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of course, but when the question is raised who is better, X or Y, I think the argument will be made far more persuasively with statistics than memories.

Completely disagree with that. There are far too many aspects of baseball that don't translate well, or at all, to statistics. Making a great cutoff throw. Taking an extra base. Taking a pitch to allow a steal. Attitude. Pitch framing. Calling a game. How do you statistically measure Gibson's ability to inspire a team by hitting a home run while playing on one leg? You can try, but its kinda hard to do. Its pretty easy to see though if you watch the game.

Most defensive statistic are, to say the least, imperfect. Stats are obviously an important tool, but they fall waaaaayyyy short of the eye test in that regard IMO. And, for my money, Grich was a far better baseball player than Kent :-)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Completely disagree with that. There are far too many aspects of baseball that don't translate well, or at all, to statistics. Making a great cutoff throw. Taking an extra base. Taking a pitch to allow a steal. Attitude. Pitch framing. Calling a game. How do you statistically measure Gibson's ability to inspire a team by hitting a home run while playing on one leg? You can try, but its kinda hard to do. Its pretty easy to see though if you watch the game.

Most defensive statistic are, to say the least, imperfect. Stats are obviously an important tool, but they fall waaaaayyyy short of the eye test in that regard IMO. And, for my money, Grich was a far better baseball player than Kent :-)

Agree on defensive stats and Grich. The problem with your first point is that most of us see only a smattering of games, and even if we watch our home team loyally, we see almost nothing of the other league and get only a small sample of other teams in the same league. So one is left with subjective impressions that may be distorted. The only way we know how good guys really are is because we have the box scores and stat lines. is it perfect, no, of course not, there are always some intangibles.

[packs]

That is no longer true today nor has it been for a long time. You can watch any game you want today and if you miss it, you can catch all the highlights at night. Everyone can see any player they want and it's been that way for years. We aren't living in a time when there's one game a week on TV. And we're discussing players who retired no later than 2006.