53 Topps Mantle SGC 88 on Goodwin

[glynparson]

In almost all cases PSA will outsell SGC. If the 1953 Mantle crosses to PSA it will sell for more. I have a friend who was looking for one he had a client at 50K on a PSA 8. Pretending SGC generally does not sell for less than PSA in most cases is just that pretending. The vast majority of full time graded card dealers use PSA and there is a reason for it. They sell for more money. SGC is generally a very fine company but this board sometimes advances some ideas about them that just are not true. I have heard some claim every SGC card would grade higher with PSA that is false I have heard some claim they are tougher on T206 I also feel that is false. Is SGC more consistent of course when you have had two vintage graders for almost 15 years that are the same, you are going to be more consistent. They also have less mistakes of course they do they've graded less than 10% of what PSA has graded. Again SGC is a fine alternative to PSA if you prefer their customer service or holders. Also their are some outlier issues where they may outsell PSA Old Judges come to mind but across the board issue for issue it is generally not close. So if you are a collector go with either one but if you want to maximize sales Id say 9 out of 10 times PSA will get you more money. Just because one prefers elements of SGC does not make their cards sell for more. PS I have bought cards from Kevin and found him to be knowledgable, honest, and very fair. For the record I would not have paid him what I did for the cards i purchased had they been in SGC and not PSA holders.
Pss From the looks of the scan I have no problem with the 8 grade as I think the chipping may be from the factory cut, at least it looks that way in the scans to me.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by glynparson

In almost all cases PSA will outsell SGC. If the 1953 Mantle crosses to PSA it will sell for more. I have a friend who was looking for one he had a client at 50K on a PSA 8. Pretending SGC generally does not sell for less than PSA in most cases is just that pretending. The vast majority of full time graded card dealers use PSA and there is a reason for it. They sell for more money. SGC is generally a very fine company but this board sometimes advances some ideas about them that just are not true. I have heard some claim every SGC card would grade higher with PSA that is false I have heard some claim they are tougher on T206 I also feel that is false. Is SGC more consistent of course when you have had two vintage graders for almost 15 years that are the same, you are going to be more consistent. They also have less mistakes of course they do they've graded less than 10% of what PSA has graded. Again SGC is a fine alternative to PSA if you prefer their customer service or holders. Also their are some outlier issues where they may outsell PSA Old Judges come to mind but across the board issue for issue it is generally not close. So if you are a collector go with either one but if you want to maximize sales Id say 9 out of 10 times PSA will get you more money. Just because one prefers elements of SGC does not make their cards sell for more. PS I have bought cards from Kevin and found him to be knowledgable, honest, and very fair. For the record I would not have paid him what I did for the cards i purchased had they been in SGC and not PSA holders.
Pss From the looks of the scan I have no problem with the 8 grade as I think the chipping may be from the factory cut, at least it looks that way in the scans to me.

Right they are pretending....as for shilling on ebay, at least we can see bid history..on the big AHs we don't know squat....it not like there isn't shilling at other AH..plus ebay you can see if its just 2 bidders bringing up the price at a certain price point or if its 5 or so bidders..i know I would be interested in buying a card where there were 7 unique bidders on the last ebay auction that bid over that hypothetical amount..yes all the 7 accounts could be faked I guess but at another AH you have no idea how many unique bidders would of been over that hypothethical price point and yeah that could be shilled as well....nothing is perfect , you use information that you get and make a decision......I just tired of the ebay talk of shilling when at least you have a chance to partially assess it versus zero assessment with other auction houses..

also getting tired of people trying to hear people 'pretend' as you say that SGC cards sell for PSA prices on average............ I never seen a PSA listed card on ebay on the listing also put 'like an SGC'....but I see tons of SGC cards talk about being able to cross the card and put PSA?...

[Peter_Spaeth]

One thing missing from Glyn's and Jake's analysis is that the same card may well grade higher by SGC in this day and age where PSA is being extremely (and many would say overly) harsh particularly on postwar. For example I have some recent PSA 6s that for all the world look near mint to me and comparable to older (and not THAT much older) PSA 7s. So the apples to apples comparison may be (for example) PSA 6 to SGC 7 at least in some cases.

[oldphil]

Recently, for reasons which I will not go into, I carefully broke out 5 T205s from their PSA holders. Three of the 5 were HOFers, one was a common, and one was a scarce common. Four of the 5 were graded PSA 7, and one was a PSA 8. None of the 5 cards came back with their prior grades. The PSA 8 came back with "evidence of trimming", as did one of the PSA 7's. Two of the PSA 7's came back as PSA 6, and one of the PSA 7's came back as a PSA 5.5. I really don't care if a TPG is viewed as tough or easy, but that they are consistent. If you don't have consistency, what do you have? I feel that in this instance the TPG failed miserably. I am not posting this to evoke any sympathy because that does no one any good. Happy New Year everyone!

[HRBAKER]

Send 'em back, you never know what you'll get.
Welcome to the game.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldphil

Recently, for reasons which I will not go into, I carefully broke out 5 T205s from their PSA holders. Three of the 5 were HOFers, one was a common, and one was a scarce common. Four of the 5 were graded PSA 7, and one was a PSA 8. None of the 5 cards came back with their prior grades. The PSA 8 came back with "evidence of trimming", as did one of the PSA 7's. Two of the PSA 7's came back as PSA 6, and one of the PSA 7's came back as a PSA 5.5. I really don't care if a TPG is viewed as tough or easy, but that they are consistent. If you don't have consistency, what do you have? I feel that in this instance the TPG failed miserably. I am not posting this to evoke any sympathy because that does no one any good. Happy New Year everyone!

It is general consensus they are much tougher these days. Not surprised at all on the 8 just as a general matter, as I am pretty skeptical of any prewar card in that high a holder, much less a T205. Plus, even if it is legit, in the current environment they seem afraid to grade stuff, or so I have heard from a few people.

[HRBAKER]

So, even if according to their standards it was legit "8" and the experts could detect no funny business to disqualify it - they are "afraid" to give it the grade?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

So, even if according to their standards it was legit "8" and the experts could detect no funny business to disqualify it - they are "afraid" to give it the grade?

I have heard that from several people, yes.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One thing missing from Glyn's and Jake's analysis is that the same card may well grade higher by SGC in this day and age where PSA is being extremely (and many would say overly) harsh particularly on postwar. For example I have some recent PSA 6s that for all the world look near mint to me and comparable to older (and not THAT much older) PSA 7s. So the apples to apples comparison may be (for example) PSA 6 to SGC 7 at least in some cases.

my example involves the exact same card.. in a SGC older or new holder or PSA old or newer holder..doesn't really matter..just saying more often than not the PSA will sell for more...

I cant imagine the number of returns if all cards were sold raw....the disparity of 'mint' and near mint from sellers of raw cards would be just as much if not more than the different grades you get on resubmitting to TPG....sellers are a bit more biased on what they sell in terms of the condition they say its in.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

my example involves the exact same card.. in a SGC older or new holder or PSA old or newer holder..doesn't really matter..just saying more often than not the PSA will sell for more...

I cant imagine the number of returns if all cards were sold raw....the disparity of 'mint' and near mint from sellers of raw cards would be just as much if not more than the different grades you get on resubmitting to TPG....sellers are a bit more biased on what they sell in terms of the condition they say its in.

agree regarding your 2nd statement.

we have discussed/debated the whole psa/sgc thing ad nauseum...and then some! yes...psa cards usually sell for more than their sgc counterparts...why? registry collectors...period.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

my example involves the exact same card.. in a SGC older or new holder or PSA old or newer holder..doesn't really matter..just saying more often than not the PSA will sell for more...

I cant imagine the number of returns if all cards were sold raw....the disparity of 'mint' and near mint from sellers of raw cards would be just as much if not more than the different grades you get on resubmitting to TPG....sellers are a bit more biased on what they sell in terms of the condition they say its in.

You're missing the point. If today I can submit a card to SGC and get a 7 where PSA would grade 6, the fact that PSA will do better in an equal holder doesn't matter so much does it? The apples to apples, or at least one of them, is how will I make out if I send the same card to each grading service. MY example not yours involves the "exact same card."

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You're missing the point. If today I can submit a card to SGC and get a 7 where PSA would grade 6, the fact that PSA will do better in an equal holder doesn't matter so much does it? The apples to apples, or at least one of them, is how will I make out if I send the same card to each grading service. MY example not yours involves the "exact same card."

understood..i am talking after graded and its the same number for each......but your example is the reason for the 'crossover' game...many times I bid on a sgc card only for what a psa card sell for a digit or 2 below for exactly that reason...