1929 Kashin R316: any examples of back stamps?

[Baseball Bob]

Yes, it is true that the movie stars set is only 96 cards. I have pondered long and hard about why the set was limited to 25 baseball cards per box, and why the "short prints" were omitted from the listings on the box backs. Long story short, I have not yet found the Rosetta Stone that explains it. Still more research to do!
Some of the explanation may have to do with whether there really were single card sales prior to the boxed sales. I have seen one auction listing purporting to have a "single card holder" but the photo showed no company markings and it looked kind of home-made. If the cards were sold singly first, then the short prints could be better explained.
Thanks
Eric

[nolemmings]

What I find strange is that the box size changed or at least the set changed from 96 to 100 when going from movie to baseball stars. Of course the baseball cards could have come first and then the set size reduced, but it's hard to believe that they could not come up with 4 more stars to keep the set size the same.

I brought up the change in company name on the back of the box to suggest what you likely already believe-that there was more than one printing of the cards. In that case, it's possible they did not have Ruth's blessing when the set first came out, and it was only after he gave his approval that his cards supplanted the 4 so-called short prints. I collect m101-4 and m101-5, and when the earlier of these was issued, it did not include Ty Cobb, which seems ridiculous. It could not realistically be considered an oversight, but rather some difficulty that caused the omission. The same might hold for the Ruth and R316, and might explain the "substitution" theory. Still, I recall from prior threads and posts from those who collect this set (I do not) that one of the four short prints--Todt?--is much more plentiful than the others; if so, one wonders why that would be so if all four were pulled evenly to make room for Ruth.

Finally, if you want a long shot, maybe look into Maurice Kashin. He was on Broadway in the early part of the last century, then bought and/or operated the Kashin Theatre in Montreal. An account of his death in 1946 said that he spent the last 20 years of his life in advertising. So there's a New York, theater and advertising connection. We know that some r316s (or cards of the same design and size) carry ads for theaters on the back. Felix Mendelsohn, the progenitor of m101-4/5, was involved in a variety of activities in the teens, including pushing arcade games. Maybe this Kashin was of the same spirit. Like I said it's a longshot, but who knows?

[Baseball Bob]

Todd
Great suggestions! The connection to the theatres is a cool lead. I had not heard of the actor Kashin you identified either. The mystery deepens! Interestingly, the theater back stamp example that Leon posted is from Chicago...
Yes, the Todt card is POP 17 (SGC+PSA) which is roughly three times as many as the Haines, Seibold or Hadley, and I have another I am going to get graded soon. I like the idea that maybe they started issuing without Ruth due to a contract or other snag. I have also looked into the source of the photos and the vast majority of them are readily traceable to Conlon. Oddly, the Ruth photo is not. I have been unable to locate the source. This may tie to the late issue idea as well.
Cheers
Eric

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Baseball Bob

Todd
Great suggestions! The connection to the theatres is a cool lead. I had not heard of the actor Kashin you identified either. The mystery deepens! Interestingly, the theater back stamp example that Leon posted is from Chicago...
Yes, the Todt card is POP 17 (SGC+PSA) which is roughly three times as many as the Haines, Seibold or Hadley, and I have another I am going to get graded soon. I like the idea that maybe they started issuing without Ruth due to a contract or other snag. I have also looked into the source of the photos and the vast majority of them are readily traceable to Conlon. Oddly, the Ruth photo is not. I have been unable to locate the source. This may tie to the late issue idea as well.
Cheers
Eric

Hi Eric
I wish I could help more but what has been discussed is probably more than I have known to start with. Here are a few scans from the collection or ex collection.....Good luck with everything.

[Baseball Bob]

Still waiting to hear from Jeff Britton (Luxury Ballcards) - one of the biggest R316 enthusiasts out there......c'mon back, Jeff!

Regards
Eric

[Baseball Bob]

Thanks, Leon, for those nice examples.

Anyone else have any examples of the colored boxes or the back stamped variety cards?

Thanks,
Eric

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi Eric
I wish I could help more but what has been discussed is probably more than I have known to start with. Here are a few scans from the collection or ex collection.....Good luck with everything.

Great stuff, as always, Leon!

Hope your new collection is going very well,

Larry

[glenv]

My only two:

r312rialto_theater_ft.jpg r312rialto_theater_bk.jpg

r316jamaica_ruth_ft.jpg r316jamaica_ruth_bk.jpg

[DaveW]

Good luck with your research, I've always liked the kashin cards. I have a couple with the Douglas Park back stamp like Leon's example. As for the Ruth card, I seem to remember a post here where somebody had the original photo that it was made from. Not sure how you would find it, maybe search for Ruth Photo or Ruth Kashin Photo - good luck.

[DaveW]

Another interesting thing. The Ruth card shown above with the Jamaica Theater back shows movies that were released in 1933 - implying that these cards were used 4 years after their 1929 issue. Maybe that's how they got rid of excess inventory?
Also, the card with the Morton Theater back also shows a 1933 movie (the Walter Huston movie)