the list (of criminals) is revealed

Bicem · #1 01-28-2016, 11:33 AM

Dave and Steve Forman sure do appear a lot as both consignors and shill bidders.

Jeff Pr|zner

ullmandds · #2 01-28-2016, 11:35 AM

i see peter S was shilled for a substantial sum on the list. I kinda remember him being reluctant to write a letter to the judge?

bn2cardz · #3 01-28-2016, 11:41 AM

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

AGuinness · #4 01-28-2016, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

Nicely done and thank you. That was the simplest and best solution to share the document.

Econteachert205 · #5 01-28-2016, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

this works great, was very interesting... anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

bobbyw8469 · #6 01-28-2016, 12:02 PM

Sickening.....but not surprising. Thank you for sharing the list. Some very disgusting stuff.

Buythatcard · #7 01-28-2016, 12:07 PM

I think we should start creating our list.

If the shiller or consignor is with a current AH, then they will be part of this list.

T206Collector · #8 01-28-2016, 12:07 PM

Here's an interesting one:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70892

Apparently this was the only Lionel Carter auction that was shilled. I very much doubt that Carter himself was involved in the shilling - I doubt this would have been his one auction to choose to shill. I would guess, instead, that Mastro had knowledge of the highest bid and then did this in order to increase the premium.

h2oya311 · #9 01-28-2016, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Here's an interesting one:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70892

Apparently this was the only Lionel Carter auction that was shilled. I very much doubt that Carter himself was involved in the shilling - I doubt this would have been his one auction to choose to shill. I would guess, instead, that Mastro had knowledge of the highest bid and then did this in order to increase the premium.

thank you...my point exactly. Some consignors may not have known about their items being shilled. But I'm sure most on this list did.

And how did Mastro determine which auctions got shilled? Did he base it on the bidding activity, relationships, town in which the consignor and shiller lived? Or side agreements he made with each of these individual consignors/shill bidders? I'm sure there are other folks out there who have made arrangements with friends/family to shill bid an auction without Mastro knowing about it. So, this begs the question, "is this list complete?" (for 2007-2009 Mastro auctions).

And yes, the inflated price phenomenon is certainly an issue here that can't be ignored...especially with price transparency sites like VCP.

#10 01-28-2016, 12:17 PM

Damn, that is a L-O-N-G list!

RichardSimon · #11 01-28-2016, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pariah1107

Damn, that is a L-O-N-G list!

I am bleary eyed and my head is dizzy from all the nay shaking it is doing.

gnaz01 · #12 01-28-2016, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

anyone else remember all of TJ Schwartz's holier than thou articles about the hobby? lol

Yup, used to be the first thing I turned to in Tuff Stuff

iwantitiwinit · #13 01-28-2016, 12:31 PM

Totally disgusting.

bobbyw8469 · #14 01-28-2016, 12:35 PM

Quote:

or if my account had been used to place a shill bid

Uhh....I think you would know if you shill bid or not. Besides...you've done a far worse thing.

bcornell · #15 01-28-2016, 12:39 PM

Per Andrew Moore, "The Government only identified a 'victim' for 347 of the 2,463 auctions". It's pretty obvious that the 2000+ auctions that don't list victims actually do have them. I was somewhat sympathetic to Doug Allen's plea not to do 57 months in jail, but I'm over that now.

Another thing to remember (and there's a lot to take in here) is that this list is just for those years where Mastro didn't destroy their records. This list would likely be much, much longer if they had that info.

Bill

Exhibitman · #16 01-28-2016, 12:40 PM

There are some entries that are clearly instances where Mastro exploited a winner's max bid by running up the total: Peter Spaeth's name shows up as a shill bidder and winner on one entry [August 2007]. Chad Dreier is shown on one as well [see June 2007]. I don't believe either of those guys had anything to do with Mastro's scheme; I do believe both were cheated as a result.

scotgreb · #17 01-28-2016, 12:13 PM

I noticed a couple from PSA's "Board of Experts" in the shill bidder column. One in particular is seen many times.

jmb · #18 01-28-2016, 12:18 PM

Sure am glad I haven't bid in any auctions. I think I will appreciate a good ebay Buy It Now auction more from now on.

glchen · #19 01-28-2016, 12:24 PM

Seriously, out of control. I was probably na�ve, but there were a lot more than I expected there. I don't even know how this is fixed in any auctions today even if the auction house does not own the auction software. Many of the shillers seemed to be friends and relatives of the consignor. So even with today's auctions, they would just have different accounts and would not be caught. Basically, the auction house (or ebay) is not directly involved in the shilling activities. However, they turn a blind eye to monitoring it.

bbcard1 · #20 01-28-2016, 12:28 PM

During that time period I was busy keeping my business afloat and didn't bid in any auctions. Fortunately, if floated. That said, it has to be disheartening for those who were gouged.

Brian Van Horn · #21 01-28-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I saved a shareable version to my google drive. It should be accessible through the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3S...ew?usp=sharing

Andy,

A BIG Thank YOU!

MULLINS5 · #22 01-28-2016, 02:48 PM

Is there a way to find what was auctioned off? I am particularly interested in April 2007 Lot # 1512. Thank you in advance.

btcarfagno · #23 01-28-2016, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Is there a way to find what was auctioned off? I am particularly interested in April 2007 Lot # 1512. Thank you in advance.

That was Ted Williams' game used bat for home run #400.

Tom C

Snapolit1 · #24 01-28-2016, 03:05 PM

How do you prove something was a shill bid? Can't the suspected shill bidder -- even if a competitor auctioneer or dealer -- just come back and say "Well of course we all follow each others' auctions and try to steal things at low prices if we can. I would have taken that Mantle card at $10,000 happily. . . . I suspected others would come along and far outbid me but crazier things have happened . . . ."

mrmopar · #25 01-28-2016, 03:06 PM

I guess this might be one of those examples of "First World Problems" that are often joked about. Not a joking matter here, of course, but I am nowhere near having this problem. I have never bid on an auction that wasn't on ebay and I am definitely a low end collector compared to just about any item shown on this report. It is likely that via ebay, I have been a victim of paying more than I would have w/o a shill bidder. I snipe just about everything and have for years now. Although that will help protect you from those pesky "nibblers" that bid up your proxy bids until you are maxed or they just slightly outbid you, you still pay more regardless if someone tosses out a shill bid anywhere within the listing timeframe. Kind of like those victimless line items from the report.

danmckee · #26 01-28-2016, 03:12 PM

Who is Cardboard Collectibles?

It shows them shilling me

Page 81 lot 1856 I am shown as being shilled on a 3rd series Wacky Package stickers full box Graded by GAI. Though I do collect wacky packages, I never won that item.

Too funny

bn2cardz · #27 01-28-2016, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Is there a way to find what was auctioned off? I am particularly interested in April 2007 Lot # 1512. Thank you in advance.

You would need an account with Legendary Auctions. Then go to history where you can search specific Auctions.

Here is the link for this specific item:
http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70657

MULLINS5 · #28 01-28-2016, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

You would need an account with Legendary Auctions. Then go to history where you can search specific Auctions.

Here is the link for this specific item:
http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...entoryid=70657

Thank you. It says the consignor is Joe Orlando. The bat was sold by a John Orlando, I believe. Could this be a really bad typo?

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