the list (of criminals) is revealed

4815162342 · #1 02-01-2016, 03:51 PM

So... what's the solution to this mess?

nolemmings · #2 02-01-2016, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So... what's the solution to this mess?

I doubt anything meaningful will happen to fix the problem unless legislation is passed and/or enforcement becomes more widespread. Like another stated however many posts ago, the pervasiveness of auction house shilling is not surprising.

There are of course transparency steps that Auction Houses could utilize, but won't, in some perceived name of privacy. As wonderful as this hobby can be, it is filthy, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Not trying to sound sanctimonious, but I would bet more people are worried about the financial impact it might have on their collections than on the company they keep.

packs · #3 02-01-2016, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So... what's the solution to this mess?

I think the only solution is to make this practice so egregious that no one ever tries it again. That would mean ceasing all bidding with anyone associated with shilling. That would also mean ceasing all business with a TPG that contributed to the shilling, as well as making questionable conflict of interest decisions re: grading and selling their own cards. I'd also only bid in increments of one, which will drive down all prices and extend bidding longer, which will also probably drive away prospective bidders.

All in all it seems as though shilling will cost people (AH and TPGs) more money than they ever stood to gain. These opinions are meant to be taken broadly. I am not singling out any one person / company / business.

conor912 · #4 02-01-2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So... what's the solution to this mess?

Keep in mind that this is in no way isolated to our hobby. This is a systemic problem with phone/internet auctions across as many hobbies as have them. The fruit is just too low hanging. And, to continue my tree analogy, the roots of the auction industry, TPG industry, and collectors' love for this hobby are so intertwined, that at this point paring back any one too much may kill all three.

Rich Klein · #5 02-01-2016, 06:45 PM

If anyone who accepts advertising money refuses ads from people (or their employers) mentioned in the list

Rich

Snapolit1 · #6 02-01-2016, 07:01 PM

One thing for some yutz on eBay supporting his buddy with a few fake bids. Quote another for someone who runs an auction house to be an active participant in fraud. I'd be awfully concerned about class action lawsuits if I was one of these guys.

Yoda · #7 02-01-2016, 08:02 PM

After all this horror, intrigue, second-guessing, finger pointing and what else, it just occurs to me that the themes underlying the whole sordid Mastro business are just those old human traits of greed, jealousy and hubris which turned what seemed, when I first got involved outside of my boyhood, from a pleasant, harmless hobby into something that has taken on a life of its' own. My one comforting thought is that, where I am right now, they aren't making any more pre-war cards (real ones, anyhow) and I still love looking at them. John

Tennis13 · #8 02-01-2016, 08:03 PM

Hello All. I am a New Jersey-based semi-serious collector. I am the owner of a few, higher-end graded 1933 & 1934 Goudeys. I am obviously reading this board with keen interest. I collect with my dad, and we enjoy it -- it's nothing more, nothing less.

I was wondering, a few people had posted the links to some of these 2000+ auctions, and the actual products that were auctioned. Do these exist in a database somewhere? Has anyone done the work over the years to identify the exact memorabilia for each of these auctions (maybe DoJ or FBI has published this)? How could I go about identifying each of these auctioned items in a timely fashion?

I have read this document many times the past 48 hours. I have read most, but not all of the replies to this thread. A few things jump out. Yes, there are typos in this document. I believe that's because the filing is from the defense, not the prosecution. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm also not as entrenched in this industry as many of you are. I have been Googling as many of the shill bidders to try to unravel and connect the dots across various industries. The vertical integration on the business front is quite astounding, given the audacity that these people have, and the connections they have to other industries! I'm really intrigued to investigate and get to the bottom of this.

Thanks for your help.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 02-01-2016, 08:09 PM

As has been mentioned several times, the main document people are focused on was created by the government.

ElCabron · #10 02-01-2016, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As has been mentioned several times, the main document people are focused on was created by the government.

You continue to post in a thread titled "the list (of criminals) is revealed," where the list it's referring to is one you are specifically named as one of the criminals.

-Ryan

sago · #11 02-01-2016, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennis13

I was wondering, a few people had posted the links to some of these 2000+ auctions, and the actual products that were auctioned. Do these exist in a database somewhere? Has anyone done the work over the years to identify the exact memorabilia for each of these auctions (maybe DoJ or FBI has published this)? How could I go about identifying each of these auctioned items in a timely fashion?

Hi,
This should get you started. The archived snapshots may contain the auctions listed, and you can plug in the descriptions.

D@v1D
https://web.archive.org/web/20070101...roauctions.com

Tennis13 · #12 02-01-2016, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sago

Hi,
This should get you started. The archived snapshots may contain the auctions listed, and you can plug in the descriptions.

D@v1D
https://web.archive.org/web/20070101...roauctions.com

Thank you for this. I have seen it alluded to -- but not backed up with specific documentation anywhere -- is there any firm documentation that quantifies how much, if any, financial backing Mastro gave during the creation of PSA, and whether he ever owned any equity in that company, and for how long?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
my top secret want lists being revealed	sflayank	1960-1979 Baseball Cards B/S/T	5	01-07-2016 02:13 AM
my top secret want lists being revealed	sflayank	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	2	12-31-2015 11:59 AM
Autograph News Live - criminals or just cowards?	Michael Frost	Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports	186	10-25-2013 11:36 PM
criminals and heroes of the t206 set	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	19	01-11-2009 08:03 PM
secret want list revealed dealers will kill for this list	Archive	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	08-18-2008 11:06 AM