the list (of criminals) is revealed

sflayank · #1 02-03-2016, 08:40 PM

And btw...has any one on t his board figured out why these auction houses wont go to the 15 minute rule per lot?
ITS TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PUT IN MAX BIDS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO STAY UP TIL 4AM.

sbfinley · #2 02-03-2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

And btw...has any one on t his board figured out why these auction houses wont go to the 15 minute rule per lot?
ITS TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PUT IN MAX BIDS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO STAY UP TIL 4AM.

I get why houses close all at once. It helps bring in more bids. Plenty of times I've reached my limit on one item so I fell back to another I was watching or put an early bid in on. If those would have happened to close early the house and consignor lose money.

sflayank · #3 02-03-2016, 09:10 PM

its a total fallacy...if the auction house rules were 15 minutes per lot or even 30 minutes per lot all the bidders would know that and bid accordingly....they want you to go to sleep and put in a max bid.....PERIOD...

sbfinley · #4 02-03-2016, 09:15 PM

I disagree, but hey it's a great country and we're allowed to.

begsu1013 · #5 02-03-2016, 09:35 PM

i don't even think garmin could navigate this thread w/o a hefty dose of tylenol, but could someone transcribe a list of those who have stepped up and commented on their actions for me?

not asking whether you believe or even liked what they had to say, simply of those that had the balls to actually log in and post.

just curious to see how short the list is.

thanks in advance.

"recalculating"

ullmandds · #6 02-03-2016, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i don't even think garmin could navigate this thread w/o a hefty dose of tylenol, but could someone transcribe a list of those who have stepped up and commented on their actions for me?

not asking whether you believe or even liked what they had to say, simply of those that had the balls to actually log in and post.

just curious to see how short the list is.

thanks in advance.

"recalculating"

Shilling in the name of...

begsu1013 · #7 02-03-2016, 10:23 PM

that was a good one!

i actually thought about posting it, but did not think anyone on here would actually get it.

i'd speculate that the median age of the board members here was probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 53...

which basically rules them out of knowing anything about rage against the machine.

bulls on a parade, i guess.

Exhibitman · #8 02-04-2016, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

its a total fallacy...if the auction house rules were 15 minutes per lot or even 30 minutes per lot all the bidders would know that and bid accordingly....they want you to go to sleep and put in a max bid.....PERIOD...

That is not my experience, Larry. Most times I have a pretty concrete budget I can work with for an auction. I have often gone into OT with high bids on several lots that were later knocked out, leaving me with available cash but nothing to bid on even though there were items I would have bid on otherwise. Conversely, in an auction like Sterling where all lots close at the same time, I have successfully shifted my 'action' to alternative lots when the ones I was high bidder on fell out.

ETA: Tom Morello is older than me but still way cooler...

rats60 · #9 02-04-2016, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

That is not my experience, Larry. Most times I have a pretty concrete budget I can work with for an auction. I have often gone into OT with high bids on several lots that were later knocked out, leaving me with available cash but nothing to bid on even though there were items I would have bid on otherwise. Conversely, in an auction like Sterling where all lots close at the same time, I have successfully shifted my 'action' to alternative lots when the ones I was high bidder on fell out.

ETA: Tom Morello is older than me but still way cooler...

That is good for you if you want to stay up all night. You ignore the people who go to bed with the high bid, but get sniped by someone who stays up all night. The consignor ends up losing money because one of his bidders is asleep and can't respond to the higher bid. Those auction houses that want all lots open to 4am are losing my business. I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid.

Mark17 · #10 02-04-2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

That is good for you if you want to stay up all night. You ignore the people who go to bed with the high bid, but get sniped by someone who stays up all night. The consignor ends up losing money because one of his bidders is asleep and can't respond to the higher bid. Those auction houses that want all lots open to 4am are losing my business. I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid.

Agree.

Hunt Auctions works like that too and I love it. I place early initial bids on the lots I'm interested in and then on the final night it's easy to manage my budget. As each lot closes, I know I either won it or I didn't, so then I can proceed to the next lot (or go to bed, having spent my budget.)

I couldn't just put max bids on all four or five lots and then get to sleep, because I couldn't afford to win them all.

1880nonsports · #11 02-04-2016, 06:16 PM

that outbid might just be at the hands of the "house". If you knew that - it might not feel that good.

"I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid."

earlywynnfan · #12 02-04-2016, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

That is good for you if you want to stay up all night. You ignore the people who go to bed with the high bid, but get sniped by someone who stays up all night. The consignor ends up losing money because one of his bidders is asleep and can't respond to the higher bid. Those auction houses that want all lots open to 4am are losing my business. I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid.

While I 100% agree that the 30 min. per lot rule is much better, I'm a little surprised that you'd state -- in a thread about shill bidding -- that you prefer to give your business to an AH whose rules state the consignor may bid on their own items and the AH itself reserves the right to bid on "undervalued" lots.

WindyCityGameUsed · #13 02-04-2016, 06:53 PM

I for one would like to thank Leon for having the courage to keep this thread open.

I would imagine its not easy to stand TALL and not cave against the not so unwritten code of silence that these AH scoundrels pressure others into doing if they even think of breaking ranks.

When an auction house such as Goldin can take control over a supposed collectors site for the explicit purpose of self promotion and silencing critics all hobbyists should wonder why and have concern as members of GUU & GUC are finding out.

Its apparent that collusion is alive and well with all participants bottom line benefiting economically.

The lights have gone on again in the industry and rest assured the roaches are scurrying around looking for cover back in the darkness and I for one choose the light of day.

Ron Kosiewicz

Exhibitman · #14 02-06-2016, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

That is good for you if you want to stay up all night. You ignore the people who go to bed with the high bid, but get sniped by someone who stays up all night. The consignor ends up losing money because one of his bidders is asleep and can't respond to the higher bid. Those auction houses that want all lots open to 4am are losing my business. I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid.

Wrong answer. If the auction closing time is the issue, set a firm closing time, say midnight, but close all lots at the same time so anyone who is topped on a lot during OT can reroute to the next lot on his list. I reiterate: any time you close lots individually you cost the consignor money if there is someone who would have bid on a lot once he was beaten on a more desirable lot but was shut out because some lots closed earlier than others. I have been that someone more than once.

And as others have pointed out, the rules at Heritage allow for bidding practices that may result in a price being run up:

"The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots."
"If a lot bearing estimates fails to open for 40–60% of the low estimate, the Auctioneer may pass the item or may place a protective bid on behalf of the consignor."

WindyCityGameUsed · #15 02-06-2016, 08:46 PM

Administrator

Some additional upgrades have just been made to the forum! Here are 2 big improvements we've made...

1) The Collector to Collector and Items Wanted section will now require member log in. As I'm sure many of you have experienced, there are a lot of lurkers on the forum. Personally I've always been caught off guard and cautious, when I'm approached about an item by a non-member. Buying and selling should feel safe. We firmly believe that only members should benefit from this unique, free venue to buy, sell and trade.

2) You will now be able to edit your own posts. You can edit your posts for about 10 minutes after you've submitted them. I know this has long been a heartburn for members. This will allow you time to correct errors or add additional information.

As always, we'll keep looking for ways to improve your experience. Thank you to all the members that have suggested these two important updates.

Doug Reiser

If I showed up on a shit list I would think I would have better things to do than have my pet monkeys pulling chains

This from a henchman who never once posted memorabilia or probably collects anything except $$$$$$$

"Lurkers" LMFAAAAAOOOOO

Ron Kosiewicz

jefferyepayne · #16 02-07-2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Wrong answer. If the auction closing time is the issue, set a firm closing time, say midnight, but close all lots at the same time so anyone who is topped on a lot during OT can reroute to the next lot on his list. I reiterate: any time you close lots individually you cost the consignor money if there is someone who would have bid on a lot once he was beaten on a more desirable lot but was shut out because some lots closed earlier than others. I have been that someone more than once.

And as others have pointed out, the rules at Heritage allow for bidding practices that may result in a price being run up:

"The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots."
"If a lot bearing estimates fails to open for 40�60% of the low estimate, the Auctioneer may pass the item or may place a protective bid on behalf of the consignor."

There's no perfect format and I think each closing method can result in a bidder getting hosed:

1. Close lots individually - may result in money allocated for auction not being spent due to some auctions of interest closing and then not winning later lots. May miss lots if you don't realize the auction is a lot by lot closing and log in later.

2. Allow auctions to go late until bidding slows - may result in unscrupulous AHs bumping up bids to your Max bids if they know what those are. Also doesn't allow bidders to change their mind on their "max" after they are outbid and asleep. Also hard for those on the east coast with jobs outside the hobby.

3. Close at a set time - lots and lots of snipes at the last minute that doesn't allow someone to change their max and bid more later. Also may surprise bidders who don't realize there is a set close time.

My personal preference from a bidders perspective is:
Approach 3, 1, 2.

I've never seen any research or studies that say one of these approaches is better/worse for consigners than the others. The general perception is that letting the auction run all the way to its inevitable end is best for consigners but, again, never seen any research that says this is true.

jeff

Kenny Cole · #17 02-04-2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Tom Morello is older than me but still way cooler...

Tom Morello is a guitar playing MF. He's awesome.

RichardSimon · #18 02-04-2016, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Tom Morello is a guitar playing MF. He's awesome.

+1
I have seen him playing with Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band and he is an awesome guitar playing MF.

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