the list (of criminals) is revealed

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

It doesn't seem like that is occurring in the case of Goldin Auctions.

'Stuff' trumps morals.

As I stated earlier in this thread (and other threads too), I refuse to buy from Probstein because he allows shilling in his auctions. If everybody took that stance, it would drive these people out of business. But I don't see that happening. Funny, but I bet some of those that complain about shilling the most will still continue to do business with these folks.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

'Stuff' trumps morals.

As I stated earlier in this thread (and other threads too), I refuse to buy from Probstein because he allows shilling in his auctions. If everybody took that stance, it would drive these people out of business. But I don't see that happening. Funny, but I bet some of those that complain about shilling the most will still continue to do business with these folks.

Sadly, I'm sure you're right David.

[vintagetoppsguy]

We should have a thread with a commitment not to do business with those whose names are associated with shill bidding, and by posting your name in the thread, you are agreeing to that. I wonder how many people would post their name (basically 'signing' the agreement) and commit to that?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

We should have a thread with a commitment not to do business with those whose names are associated with shill bidding, and by posting your name in the thread, you are agreeing to that. I wonder how many people would post their name (basically 'signing' the agreement) and commit to that?

Not many. Stuff trumps all has always been the mantra of this hobby. You might have a better shot at getting people to not to consign with those associated with the list. There are plenty of really good auction houses in the hobby to consign your stuff to.

[Brian Van Horn]

I wonder if this thread will reach 1,000 posts. No shilling please.

[mechanicalman]

Refusing to buy or to bid from these dudes, while it might seem morally sound, might have unintended consequences. If folks thought that other buyers are holding out, then the potential for lower prices might actually create more interest in these auctions. The real pain would be refusing to consign to these guys. I would sign up for that list.

[timn1]

I will not bid on any Goldin items - too many red flags in its history for me, and too many other places to spend my money.

[dhernandez]

Originally Posted by timn1

I will not bid on any Goldin items - too many red flags in its history for me, and too many other places to spend my money.

I don't blame you. Kenny has proven to be da wheeler dealer he is with he and Mr.Abramowitz appearance on the list. In addition to turning a once great informative forum into a monitored infomercial. I'm sure Mr.Caviler has a role into the destruction of a once informative site. Gee Thanks Chris!

[WindyCityGameUsed]

Originally Posted by dhernandez

I don't blame you. Kenny has proven to be da wheeler dealer he is with he and Mr.Abramowitz appearance on the list. In addition to turning a once great informative forum into a monitored infomercial. I'm sure Mr.Caviler has a role into the destruction of a once informative site. Gee Thanks Chris!

Unabated Greed & Sheistyness Trumps All

[phil316]

Originally Posted by timn1

I will not bid on any Goldin items - too many red flags in its history for me, and too many other places to spend my money.

I highly disagree IMO Ken and Chris are one of the most honest people I have ever dealt with in the hobby. Goldin Auctions has top rated stuff every auction and they do thorough research behind each item and will not hesitate to pull a item if it is found to be questionable.

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by phil316

I highly disagree IMO Ken and Chris are one of the most honest people I have ever dealt with in the hobby.

Umm...you may want to read the 971 prior posts on this thread. Very interesting first post. Welcome to the board.

[timn1]

Originally Posted by phil316

I highly disagree IMO Ken and Chris are one of the most honest people I have ever dealt with in the hobby. Goldin Auctions has top rated stuff every auction and they do thorough research behind each item and will not hesitate to pull a item if it is found to be questionable.

I'm sure that many people have had only positive experiences with them as you have. But, yeah, what about all that shilling info from the Mastro/Legendary document? And no response from Mr. Goldin....

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

We should have a thread with a commitment not to do business with those whose names are associated with shill bidding, and by posting your name in the thread, you are agreeing to that. I wonder how many people would post their name (basically 'signing' the agreement) and commit to that?

Might be as short as the list of folks who came on to explain why their name was on the original list. It's been this way for years, people complain but at the end of the day the transgressions aren't enough for most to do without the cardboard crack. That's why not many feel compelled to explain themselves, why would they when at the end of the day to many it doesn't matter. You get what you are willing to put up with.

[slidekellyslide]

When even the loudest Mastro/Legendary detractor was still bidding in their auction all the way to the end you have to think that the only way to really hurt these guys is to stop consigning with them.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

When even the loudest Mastro/Legendary detractor was still bidding in their auction all the way to the end you have to think that the only way to really hurt these guys is to stop consigning with them.

nothing will change...this whole thread a waste of time....

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

nothing will change...this whole thread a waste of time....

I may be the only collector out on this limb, but I am inclined to think that the Mastro prosecutions will serve as a significant deterrent against systemic conspiracies between auction houses and consignors to shill bids. I think shill bidding by consignors and their confederates may be tougher to eradicate. Here I think auction houses would be wise to engage in some form of self-regulation that includes industry standards and efforts for identifying and ferreting out shill bidders.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

When even the loudest Mastro/Legendary detractor was still bidding in their auction all the way to the end you have to think that the only way to really hurt these guys is to stop consigning with them.

And we have a winner. If stuff trumps all then lack of stuff is the only thing that will kill the vermin.