How many cards in the T206 set?

CW · #1 03-05-2016, 10:50 PM

I tend to agree with Jesse, among others. Is this card intended to be part of T206? If the answer is yes, then (at best) this card is another red portrait Cobb with a tough back. I thought that was a given, but apparently not?

Considering the fact that no other subjects exist with the Ty Cobb back, I agree with those that consider this a separately issued (likely regional to the GA area) premium that was inserted into a short-lived Ty Cobb tobacco product, tin or otherwise.

Here's the thing... this "set" we all refer to as T206 was never intended to be issued as a set by the manufacturers. Burdick was the one that grouped these advertising cards into a baseball card set. He could have just as easily chosen to separate each advertising back into its own "set" and could've given them names like T206-SC, or T206-P, or T206-D (for Drum), and that's how we'd collect them today.

My point being that it doesn't really matter if the Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back should be considered part of the T206 set. The fact remains that it wasn't included in the set by the guy who wrote the book and basically invented the concept of the T206 set as we collect it today.

I agree with what Ted said himself back in '09...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisSo, my guess is that the Ty Cobb back card stands alone as an advertising premium for the
Ty Cobb pipe tobacco. And, that it was privately distributed in limited quantities in late 1910
or early 1911, concurrent with the T206 Red portrait Ty Cobb card. Which was issued during
this period with 24 different T-backs (more than any other T206 Subject).

The Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card would then be the 25th back on Cobb's Red portrait cards. Having
said that; though, I am not inferring that this card is part of the T206 set.

TED Z

Thromdog · #2 03-05-2016, 11:02 PM

Cobb red is a Cobb red

tedzan · #3 03-06-2016, 09:10 AM

Let's see now, the question here is...."How many cards in the T206 set ? ?".

The answer to this question depends on who you ask. Some say 6000, and others say as much as 7000......when you consider all the front / back permutations.

The most accurate number actually is between 5200 - 5300 permutations. There are a fair number of "No-Prints" in the T-brand's population. Currently, David
Hall is 95 % complete in his quest to achieve a "master" T206 set. This % number translates to just short of 5000 cards in his current T206 collection.

Yes.....I favor including the 1910 COUPON set (68 cards) and the Ty Cobb Tobacco card in the T206 set. And, there are some on this forum that agree with this.
The timeline of both these issues falls within the 1909-1911 timeline of the T206 set. Furthermore, the fronts of these 69 cards are identical to the T206's.
So, if they waddle like a duck, and quack like a duck, and were issued during 1910....then, they are a "T206".

If you check-out Burdick's records, he includes the T213-1 cards in same timeframe as the T213-2 and T213-3 (1914-1919). Obviously, at the time he did this,
he did not have the information we now have that correctly dates the 1910 COUPON cards. So, no need to fault him on this mistake.

Finally, this "poll" proves nothing. It's an insidious attempt to "bust my chops" by a couple of members on this forum. I guess this is how they get their "jollies"

TED Z
.

Bruinsfan94 · #4 03-06-2016, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Let's see now, the question here is...."How many cards in the T206 set ? ?".

The answer to this question depends on who you ask. Some say 6000, and others say as much as 7000......when you consider all the front / back permutations.

The most accurate number actually is between 5200 - 5300 permutations. There are a fair number of "No-Prints" in the T-brand's population. Currently, David
Hall is 95 % complete in his quest to achieve a "master" T206 set. This % number translates to just short of 5000 cards in his current T206 collection.

Yes.....I favor including the 1910 COUPON set (68 cards) and the Ty Cobb Tobacco card in the T206 set. And, there are some on this forum that agree with this.
The timeline of both these issues falls within the 1909-1911 timeline of the T206 set. Furthermore, the fronts of these 69 cards are identical to the T206's.
So, if they waddle like a duck, and quack like a duck, and were issued during 1910....then, they are a "T206".

If you check-out Burdick's records, he includes the T213-1 cards in same timeframe as the T213-2 and T213-3 (1914-1919). Obviously, at the time he did this,
he did not have the information we now have that correctly dates the 1910 COUPON cards. So, no need to fault him on this mistake.

Finally, this "poll" proves nothing. It's an insidious attempt to "bust my chops" by a couple of members on this forum. I guess this is how they get their "jollies"

TED Z
.

I don't even understand this argument. You either count using backs or fronts. Either way is fine and is up to the collector since it was never intended to be like a topps or play ball or goudey set. What is different about Cobb with cobb back then Cobb with other backs? Why would the coupon cards count as different t206 cards (adding to the 524 number) and not just add to the 5000-5200 number? Just because of the gloss? If that is the case then American Beauty cards have to be added to the 524 number because they are slightly different right? Doesn't really make sense for the 525 number to exist.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 03-06-2016, 10:44 AM

There seem to be two distinct questions. One, is the card a T206, and two, should it be considered a separate card for purposes of counting a complete set.

I understand the argument for calling it a T206, but I don't understand the argument for considering it the 525th card, given that the conventional completion number is based on fronts, not backs.

Rookiemonster · #6 03-06-2016, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There seem to be two distinct questions. One, is the card a T206, and two, should it be considered a separate card for purposes of counting a complete set.

I understand the argument for calling it a T206, but I don't understand the argument for considering it the 525th card, given that the conventional completion number is based on fronts, not backs.

So then the question is . Is there this exact front already in the set ?

tedzan · #7 03-06-2016, 10:51 AM

Hi Peter

I just wanted to be "cute" (or perhaps clever) when I said that.

It's a shame that some here have chosen to make a "federal case" of it.

T-Rex TED
.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 03-06-2016, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Peter

I just wanted to be "cute" (or perhaps clever) when I said that.

It's a shame that some here have chosen to make a "federal case" of it.

T-Rex TED
.

I see. Well, if your point then is that it should be considered a T206, I understand both sides but I think it's a valid argument.

steve B · #9 03-06-2016, 11:40 AM

I went with 524 since the choice was tied to the cobb card.

But there's 525, maybe 526.
Conroy plain hat/striped hat
Tinker Cubs on shirt/Cubs and Chicago on shirt.

There's probably more too.

JoeKerr · #10 03-06-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There seem to be two distinct questions. One, is the card a T206, and two, should it be considered a separate card for purposes of counting a complete set.

I understand the argument for calling it a T206, but I don't understand the argument for considering it the 525th card, given that the conventional completion number is based on fronts, not backs.

T206 "White boarder". Does it have a white boarder?

View Poll Results: How many cards in the T206 set
524 (there are four Ty Cobb cards)	109	91.60%
525 (there are five Ty Cobb cards)	10	8.40%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll