Jsa and psa/dna

[egri]

I have a handful of 2007 Topps Heritage autographs, and they're just as bold as when I pulled them. From looking at the Larsen, my guess is one of its previous owners (LCS, maybe?) stored it under a fluorescent light, or somewhere exposed to direct sunlight.

[hawaiian bam bam]

I agree with you, however mine were stored out of sunlight and still faded! so the issue might be the person who owned the card before me might have stored it under light. i remember the card shows of th 80's and 90's where there were dozens of tables with certified autographs sitting out in the light for hours and hours! or cards shops that had autographs in cases in sunlight for months and months.

after seeing the high percentage of fakes out there, im thinking certified factory autographs(pack pulled) might be as close to being real as we are going to get.

[mighty bombjack]

If memory serves, Topps used and still uses Staedtler pens, which are pretty nice, but I do see some fading, especially on the higher-tech surfaces (Chrome or whatever).

Here is my Larsen from that set, scanned minutes ago. It does seem a bit more faded than I remember.



NOTE: I scanned the Schmidt because I have seen a few copies of that with autographs similar to the Larsen you posted. Mine is still fairly strong. I also wanted to share the story below...


STORY: As I mentioned, I was the editor for this set, which means I chose the photos and approved the sheets of cards before they went to the printer. I made a few errors. See the error there?

One day maybe a month after these were finalized, I got a call from one of the player reps telling me that I screwed up and that Mike Schmidt is pissed off and refuses to sign his cards because of the REVERSE NEGATIVE. Man, he had me for a bit, thinking my multiple managers were gonna let me hear it all day. He only let me sweat it a bit before telling me that Schmidt thought it was funny and actually kind of cool. I agree.

[hawaiian bam bam]

thank you for the info and pics. I swear that for years and years i thought that my sharpie autographs have faded or were beginning to fade, i couldnt prove it or pinpoint exactly the fading, but just new somehow they didnt look like when i either bought them or got them in packs. now that your saying that your noticing fading too, i dont feel like im going crazy and the only one that has this fading problem! wouldnt that be something if lets say 15-20 years the hobby wakes up and realizes all these sharpie autographs fade over time? i dont think its just the cards, i think its the actual blue ink used. what do you think causes this fading?

[Lordstan]

To the OP,
I am one who has been very critical of the TPAs in the autograph world. While I agree that they get the majority of stuff right, many of the mistakes they have made are really big ones that defy logic, IMHO. When taken in the correct way, I think they do serve a purpose for giving an opinion. My problem has always been that people take them as the end all be all on auto because they sell themselves as experts. Plus they charge based on the autograph value and not the difficulty of the authentication. IMO, If it was about quality of work, the time it takes to do an authentication would the price varying factor. Many of the big name autos can be given a "yes" or "no" in seconds, once you know what you are looking for, but I would be willing to bet only a couple people on the totality of this board know what a Clancy Smyres auto looks like. I don't

The best way to ensure the highest likelihood of buying real autos comes in 6 easy steps.

1) Educate yourself on the autos you wish to buy.
2) Educate yourself on the autos you wish to buy.
3) Educate yourself on the autos you wish to buy.

4) Find a select group of well established/reliable dealers. Besides knowledge, perhaps the most important thing to look for is do they stand behind their items. The reality is that every auto collector has, at one time, perhaps more than once, purchased or sold an auto that was not real. Of course, for most of us, it's just a mistake. IMHO, The real test of a good dealer is will they take something back if it is later shown to be fake. Many out there will get something certed by PSA and then issue the no refund deal. I think that someone who is confident in their skills will rely on their own expertise, not a TPA.

5) Find a group of friends/colleague collectors who you trust.. These people should be able to tell you their truthful opinion without you getting pissed at them. Sometimes we all need that slap across the back of the head to reality orient us. Additionally these will be the people who will share their knowledge with you openly. As you can see, many people are tight lipped about specific things they look for in each auto. A lot do this, because scammers read Net54 as well, and no one wants to give them any help

6) Become a skeptic. One of the biggest issues I see is that people want the items to be real so much to feed their obsession that they lose objectivity. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.

Autos can be a lot of fun, but they are also a lot of work. Please don't "invest" your hard earned money expecting a big return before you have an idea what you are looking at.

Regarding factory certed autos... I guess you guys haven't heard about the scandals where one of the companies send a player a few hundred cards and he gave some to different family members to sign. LOL

Best,
M@rk V3l@rd3

[hawaiian bam bam]

the only story i heard was don zimmer was having his wife sign his "certified: autos. are thee other stories? i would like to know before i shell out any money on "factory certified"; autos, thanks

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by hawaiian bam bam

the only story i heard was don zimmer was having his wife sign his "certified: autos. are thee other stories? i would like to know before i shell out any money on "factory certified"; autos, thanks

Yes. There are other stories. I have heard them in all different sports, not just baseball. This has led to some of the companies now wanting an employee witness the cards being signed. I don't know which though.

Remember rules number 1 through 3. You still need to educate yourself as to what the auto should look like. There are no guarantees, even with factory certified. Plus, if you only buy those, you will limit yourself pretty greatly in what autos you will own.

[SikSyko]

Originally Posted by hawaiian bam bam

the only story i heard was don zimmer was having his wife sign his "certified: autos. are thee other stories? i would like to know before i shell out any money on "factory certified"; autos, thanks

I've had a hockey player tell me that he did not sign all his cards. A few football players were busted having others sign.

[mighty bombjack]

When I worked there (again, 2001-2), Topps was serious about having a rep present at all signings. I myself was sent to sit with Steve Garvey, Orlando Cepeda, and Chris Childress while they signed 2000 cards each. This was a big part of the player reps' jobs. One of those reps did tell me story of a (then) recent football draftee who had his friend signing his Fleer cards while the rep watched him sign the Topps cards!

I don't know if Topps still does this (or even pays it lip service). It would certainly be an easy cost to cut (so I'm guessing Eisner's group did so when they took over).

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

To the OP,
I am one who has been very critical of the TPAs in the autograph world. While I agree that they get the majority of stuff right, many of the mistakes they have made are really big ones that defy logic, IMHO. When taken in the correct way, I think they do serve a purpose for giving an opinion. My problem has always been that people take them as the end all be all on auto because they sell themselves as experts. Plus they charge based on the autograph value and not the difficulty of the authentication. IMO, If it was about quality of work, the time it takes to do an authentication would the price varying factor. Many of the big name autos can be given a "yes" or "no" in seconds, once you know what you are looking for, but I would be willing to bet only a couple people on the totality of this board know what a Clancy Smyres auto looks like. I don't

The best way to ensure the highest likelihood of buying real autos comes in 6 easy steps.

1) Educate yourself on the autos you wish to buy.
2) Educate yourself on the autos you wish to buy.
3) Educate yourself on the autos you wish to buy.

4) Find a select group of well established/reliable dealers. Besides knowledge, perhaps the most important thing to look for is do they stand behind their items. The reality is that every auto collector has, at one time, perhaps more than once, purchased or sold an auto that was not real. Of course, for most of us, it's just a mistake. IMHO, The real test of a good dealer is will they take something back if it is later shown to be fake. Many out there will get something certed by PSA and then issue the no refund deal. I think that someone who is confident in their skills will rely on their own expertise, not a TPA.

5) Find a group of friends/colleague collectors who you trust.. These people should be able to tell you their truthful opinion without you getting pissed at them. Sometimes we all need that slap across the back of the head to reality orient us. Additionally these will be the people who will share their knowledge with you openly. As you can see, many people are tight lipped about specific things they look for in each auto. A lot do this, because scammers read Net54 as well, and no one wants to give them any help

6) Become a skeptic. One of the biggest issues I see is that people want the items to be real so much to feed their obsession that they lose objectivity. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.

Autos can be a lot of fun, but they are also a lot of work. Please don't "invest" your hard earned money expecting a big return before you have an idea what you are looking at.

Regarding factory certed autos... I guess you guys haven't heard about the scandals where one of the companies send a player a few hundred cards and he gave some to different family members to sign. LOL

Best,
M@rk V3l@rd3

Thanks so much. I just received my autograph reference book last night and I am reading and comparing. It's realllly fun too. Thanks for the advice.

[Republicaninmass]

6) Become a skeptic. One of the biggest issues I see is that people want the items to be real so much to feed their obsession that they lose objectivity. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.


Guilty as charged

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

6) Become a skeptic. One of the biggest issues I see is that people want the items to be real so much to feed their obsession that they lose objectivity. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.


Guilty as charged

Yeah I would bet 99%+ of autograph collectors (at least those who purchase autographs) knows of what he speaks from personal experience.