OT: Manning announces his retirement

[ksabet]

You people and your nostalgia.

If you think Unitas could hold Brady or Manning's jock straps you don't really know football.


I am happy though that no one mentioned the most overrated player in the history of football. Mr. all style no substance. Look at me I am in the HOF despite a losing record, throwing more INT;s than TDs and having a horrendous completion percentage. Dave Krieg was better a QB than Broadway Joe.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ksabet

You people and your nostalgia.

If you think Unitas could hold Brady or Manning's jock straps you don't really know football.


I am happy though that no one mentioned the most overrated player in the history of football. Mr. all style no substance. Look at me I am in the HOF despite a losing record, throwing more INT;s than TDs and having a horrendous completion percentage. Dave Krieg was better a QB than Broadway Joe.

Many panels of experts over the recent years would disagree with you, as most rank Unitas anywhere from 1 to 3.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Many panels of experts over the recent years would disagree with you, as most rank Unitas anywhere from 1 to 3.

I realize that, but its a bit of revisionist history.


I argue the same thing with Babe Ruth. Does anyone honestly believe he was as good an athlete and ball player as Ken Griffey Jr.? But he's always numero uno on most lists.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I realize that, but its a bit of revisionist history.


I argue the same thing with Babe Ruth. Does anyone honestly believe he was as good an athlete and ball player as Ken Griffey Jr.? But he's always numero uno on most lists.

So at what point did athletes evolve in baseball? Was it when DiMaggio succeeded Ruth? When Mantle and Mays succeeded DiMaggio? When Jackson and Schmidt succeeded Mantle and Mays? When Griffey succeeded them?

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So at what point did athletes evolve in baseball? Was it when DiMaggio succeeded Ruth? When Mantle and Mays succeeded DiMaggio? When Jackson and Schmidt succeeded Mantle and Mays? When Griffey succeeded them?

When the steroids got popular?


Ive always liked to look at the mile. People used to think that running a mile in under 4 minutes was an impossibility now its the norm. I do think that its similar in football. In baseball its tough to say because guys threw 100 mph back then as they do now.

I would not pretend to know as much about baseball as I do about football. So being on here as long as I have I would trust your opinion more than my own, so what are your thoughts?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I realize that, but its a bit of revisionist history.


I argue the same thing with Babe Ruth. Does anyone honestly believe he was as good an athlete and ball player as Ken Griffey Jr.? But he's always numero uno on most lists.

Do you not think that the great players of the 50s and 60s, Clemente, Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Rose, etc. would be superstars today?

You have Brady #1, but his stats are no better than Manning's, both regular season (96.4 to 96.5) and postseason (88.0 to 87.4) and that is before factoring Spygate and Deflategate.

[Mikehealer]

Best QB ever, Aaron Rodgers and it's really not even close.

And how can you have a list of best passers and not have Warren Moon somewhere. I can't think of anyone that threw a better pass.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by rats60

Do you not think that the great players of the 50s and 60s, Clemente, Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Rose, etc. would be superstars today?

You have Brady #1, but his stats are no better than Manning's, both regular season (96.4 to 96.5) and postseason (88.0 to 87.4) and that is before factoring Spygate and Deflategate.

I don't know in regards to baseball. Do I think those guys would be better than the average players...absolutely. Do I think that they could outplay the megastars of today, I would guess no, but I defer to the more knowledgeable.

Removing one year from his career, Brady had so much less to work with than any other QB in history and if not for two very fluky plays he'd have 6 rings right now. I believe Unitas would be a solid backup today. Theres no way he could stand up to how big, fast and strong defenses have become.

BTW I admit this is a silly argument because I am the first to argue that you can really only compare athletes to their contemporaries, very difficult to cross compare generations.

[drcy]

Not to suggest that there aren't some all-time great quarterbacks today, but the recent passing and receiving records are a product of the rules.

Any list that doesn't include Johnny Unitas, says the list maker goes by today's open-the-floodgate stats. A generation ago, when passing for 300 yards in a game was a huge day and 3000 in a season got you to the Pro Bowl, Johnny Unitas was universally ranked as the all time best. He was the Jim Brown no-brainer as best quarterback. Perhaps a quarterback, two or three have deservedly passed him since then (I've for years have considered "newbie" Peyton Manning one of the all-time best), but when Unitas' name doesn't even appear in a sea of Drew Breeses and Aaron Rogereres, I assume the list maker is a youngster wearing ESPN blinkers. It's also common, and a standard cognitive bias on the list of human cognitive biases, for all-time lists on any subject to be over populated with recent things. The list is made by a person or organization that views history and its details from its time, place and familiarity.

I have always argued that Brett Favre was the most valuable of his era because he played every game. Second, third or 5th best best is automatically more valuable in the game than number on the bench. Someone can perhaps rightfully argue that So-and-so was superior to Favre "when they were playing," but the "when they were playing" is a big disclaimer. Coupled with his on the field abilities (which people can argue over whether it was first, third or fifth), that Favre played every single game made him the most valuable. When the rubber hits the road, as they say.

[TUM301]

As stated above, throw the raw #`s out the window. Watching Matt Stafford and the like go for 5000/40 + TD`s in a season has made stats what they are. That`s why I use the 'have to win one game this Sunday" criteria for best ever. Also, and this from as big a Brady fan as there is, guys like Unitas, Tarkenton, Elway, Staubach etc. would be running for their lives and taking huge "legal" hits every week. Offense sells obviously, but put me in the 24-21 game with great plays being made on both sides of the ball versus the 45+ pass attempts from both QB`s with a periodic run sprinkled in. Talent is talent and success comes from many intangibles. The players from all the mentioned eras have both and I think would have achieved what they did playing any time.
Ruth, he`s a special case. When one player literally carries the american sports scene and bye the way out homers entire teams, he has to be put above everyone else. Great topic for discussion boys, and my 2 cents.