ebay return shipping & t206 length opinions please

[tonyo]

Hey Ben,

Thanks for the response. I'm neither "happy" nor "un-happy" to a degree worth worrying about.

I'm more hoping this thread will turn into an informative one regarding t206 (and maybe pre war cards in general) sizes and trimming.

also opinions of return shipping.

maybe along the way it will sway me toward "shrugging my shoulders" and keeping the card vs returning it. But that is secondary.

Have a great Saturday!

Tony

[Leon]

Form my less-than-an-expert point of view, if a T206 is a full 1/8th inch short I would think it is probably trimmed or severely miscut.

I am in agreement on shipping costs...my mistake I eat, their mistake they eat.

Originally Posted by tonyo

Hey Ben,

Thanks for the response. I'm neither "happy" nor "un-happy" to a degree worth worrying about.

I'm more hoping this thread will turn into an informative one regarding t206 (and maybe pre war cards in general) sizes and trimming.

also opinions of return shipping.

maybe along the way it will sway me toward "shrugging my shoulders" and keeping the card vs returning it. But that is secondary.

Have a great Saturday!

Tony

[Cozumeleno]

Sorry that happened to you - I would agree that it looks trimmed to me.

My question is if the seller is really liable here for the return shipping. If I were selling it, it's not worth the hassle of having an unhappy buyer so I would accept the return and pay for the return shipping. But he also listed the card as fair to poor and as a trimmed card, poor is what it is. I realize the amount of creasing makes it poor, anyway, but I would probably feel differently if the card didn't have as much creasing and he listed the card as Good or something. By calling it fair to poor, I think he technically covers himself on a trimmed card.

He certainly needs to accept the return but the description actually matches what the card is since he calls it either fair or poor, IMO.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

Sorry that happened to you - I would agree that it looks trimmed to me.

My question is if the seller is really liable here for the return shipping. If I were selling it, it's not worth the hassle of having an unhappy buyer so I would accept the return and pay for the return shipping. But he also listed the card as fair to poor and as a trimmed card, poor is what it is. I realize the amount of creasing makes it poor, anyway, but I would probably feel differently if the card didn't have as much creasing and he listed the card as Good or something. By calling it fair to poor, I think he technically covers himself on a trimmed card.

He certainly needs to accept the return but the description actually matches what the card is since he calls it either fair or poor, IMO.

Agree. It's an off-grade card to begin with. If you want to buy on approval, you need to at least eat the return shipping cost.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Agree. It's an off-grade card to begin with. If you want to buy on approval, you need to at least eat the return shipping cost.

+1

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

Sorry that happened to you - I would agree that it looks trimmed to me.

My question is if the seller is really liable here for the return shipping. If I were selling it, it's not worth the hassle of having an unhappy buyer so I would accept the return and pay for the return shipping. But he also listed the card as fair to poor and as a trimmed card, poor is what it is. I realize the amount of creasing makes it poor, anyway, but I would probably feel differently if the card didn't have as much creasing and he listed the card as Good or something. By calling it fair to poor, I think he technically covers himself on a trimmed card.

He certainly needs to accept the return but the description actually matches what the card is since he calls it either fair or poor, IMO.

Yeah, I agree with this. Ebay return policy is that buyer pays return shipping. I've only returned a few items, but I have always paid the shipping.

I think that since he called it a poor condition card, he has done everything he needed to. None of us can be sure that it is trimmed, so I wouldn't expect the seller to make a judgement call for sure one way or the other.

When I am selling a card that in my opinion has a chance to be trimmed, I mention the possibility. I think that is the ideal way to handle it, but if the card is low grade and the seller mentions that and provides a good scan, I think that is enough.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

By calling it fair to poor, I think he technically covers himself on a trimmed card.

He certainly needs to accept the return but the description actually matches what the card is since he calls it either fair or poor, IMO.

I've never even considered "poor" to mean "it could be trimmed"

Do others (beside Luke... I read your comments and consider them valid) really believe this? Comes as a bit of surprise to me.

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

Ebay return policy is that buyer pays return shipping.

I wasn't aware of this. If true, I'll never question that again as I'm all about written rules.

[caramelcard]

Hi Tony,

Short doesn't mean trimmed. T206 sizes vary.

It doesn't look trimmed to me, but I can't tell from a scan unless it's blatant.

If I sold a card on ebay that I made a mistake on then I would pay return shipping.

Sometimes people buy cards from me (graded or not) and they decide when they get it that they just don't want it anymore. In this situation, I would much prefer that they pay return shipping. Most don't want to of course.

I believe as a seller you can dictate in your description if you want the buyer to pay return shipping or if you'll pay for it as the seller.

Ebay rules change hourly so it's hard to keep up with.

Rob

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

Hi Tony,

Short doesn't mean trimmed. T206 sizes vary.

It doesn't look trimmed to me, but I can't tell from a scan unless it's blatant.

If I sold a card on ebay that I made a mistake on then I would pay return shipping.

Sometimes people buy cards from me (graded or not) and they decide when they get it that they just don't want it anymore. In this situation, I would much prefer that they pay return shipping. Most don't want to of course.

I believe as a seller you can dictate in your description if you want the buyer to pay return shipping or if you'll pay for it as the seller.

Ebay rules change hourly so it's hard to keep up with.

Rob

Thanks Rob,

Believe me, the ONLY reason I wouldn't want it is if I believe it to be trimmed.
The edges don't look to be trimmed to me either. It's just sooo short compared to others.

I appreciate your input ... it means a lot.




Tony

[Luke]

Tony,

I didn't mean that calling a card "poor" means that the card could be trimmed. I just meant that if a seller is providing a scan and saying that the card is in poor condition, I feel like they are dealing in good faith and not trying to hide anything. That is much different to me than sellers who list a trimmed card as EX+, which seems to be happening a lot these days.

I agree with Rob that it doesn't really look trimmed to me. A scan of the front could help, but so far the corner wear looks pretty even to me. I think if I had sold that card, it wouldn't have occurred to me to call it trimmed.

I am not an expert on Sov460s, but there are some cards that tend to be cut smaller from the factory. A lot of Old Mills from the 350 series for instance can have pretty small borders, and they came that way from the factory.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by tonyo

I've never even considered "poor" to mean "it could be trimmed"

Do others (beside Luke... I read your comments and consider them valid) really believe this? Comes as a bit of surprise to me.



I wasn't aware of this. If true, I'll never question that again as I'm all about written rules.

Hi Tony - I say this in the sense that there is really nowhere to go from 'Poor'. It is the bottom of the barrel. Most definitions of a card in Poor condition cover cards that are in terrible condition and trimmed cards would be part of that, no matter what the rest of the card looks like. Any raw card that is trimmed is considered a 'Poor' card.

Grading companies have muddied things up a bit by grading trimmed cards 'Authentic'. But in terms of the grading scale for raw cards, there's not really a level below Poor. So to me, and others, I'm sure, a trimmed card is automatically a Poor one. I should add that if the card is known or even believed to be trimmed, the seller should state that. But as others have pointed out, it's not a slam dunk and some cards just measure short. Since it's not a clear cut case (unless the seller knows and isn't clarifying), I think the description was a reasonable one.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

Hi Tony - I say this in the sense that there is really nowhere to go from 'Poor'. It is the bottom of the barrel. Most definitions of a card in Poor condition cover cards that are in terrible condition and trimmed cards would be part of that, no matter what the rest of the card looks like. Any raw card that is trimmed is considered a 'Poor' card.

Grading companies have muddied things up a bit by grading trimmed cards 'Authentic'. But in terms of the grading scale for raw cards, there's not really a level below Poor. So to me, and others, I'm sure, a trimmed card is automatically a Poor one. I should add that if the card is known or even believed to be trimmed, the seller should state that. But as others have pointed out, it's not a slam dunk and some cards just measure short. Since it's not a clear cut case (unless the seller knows and isn't clarifying), I think the description was a reasonable one.

Hi Coz,

I feel that a card being altered from it's original state is a completely different set of parameters than it's condition. So, I agree that there is nowhere to go lower than poor as far as condition is concerned. However, whether or not a card is altered is a different topic vs. condition.

Oh, well. No problem that's what I hoped this thread would be good for..... shedding new light on some issues for some collectors.

Take it easy!

[ullmandds]

Altered is the bottom of the barrel...lower than poor! Only thing lower than altered is fake!