Pwcc

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Thanks Larry, maybe you can PM Pete U. and share the news with him....

no need to pm me...I can read. how much proof do you need, KEVIN...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat! Just because they don't cheat all the time...doesn't take away the fact that THEY CHEAT!!!!

If you don't mind being cheated...then bid on their stuff.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat!

think this is an unfair statement. doubt very seriously brent is cheating.

are there people who consign w/ pwcc and bid up their own product, sure. hard to stop that as it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out how to do that.

but to insist that brent has something to do w/ it and w/ zero proof to back it up, i think is completely unfair.

now before you throw out the "turning a blind eye" argument, again...ya need proof. I've only asked him to check into 2 auctions that I was serious on and got back to me w/I an hour. you'd be surprised at the amount of people that only need a few items and would only use ebay for a small fraction to fill these holes, so their bid history of 50%+ seems suspicious.

retractions? different story, but I know he booted 2 folks last auction for the number of retractions they had.

without any evidence we can speculate all day long and on every topic.

not defending him, but unless there is absolute certainty or an ebay list surfaces similar to the maestro one, it's hard to call him a "cheat", imo.

flame on.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

think this is an unfair statement. doubt very seriously brent is cheating.

are there people who consign w/ pwcc and bid up their own product, sure. hard to stop that as it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out how to do that.

but to insist that brent has something to do w/ it and w/ zero proof to back it up, i think is completely unfair.

now before you throw out the "turning a blind eye" argument, again...ya need proof. I've only asked him to check into 2 auctions that I was serious on and got back to me w/I an hour. you'd be surprised at the amount of people that only need a few items and would only use ebay for a small fraction to fill these holes, so their bid history of 50%+ seems suspicious.

retractions? different story, but I know he booted 2 folks last auction for the number of retractions they had.

without any evidence we can speculate all day long and on every topic.

not defending him, but unless there is absolute certainty or an ebay list surfaces similar to the maestro one, it's hard to call him a "cheat", imo.

flame on.

Pretty good job of defending him...without defending him

[ullmandds]

but you have a point...I misspoke. some sellers allow/do not make a very good effort to prevent cheating.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Pretty good job of defending him...without defending him

i guess. just posting my factual experiences. the point stands true though, correct?

(and nothing consigned w/ him. and the two things that did peak my interest, no longer do as they have already surpassed my price point)

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no need to pm me...I can read. how much proof do you need, KEVIN...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat! Just because they don't cheat all the time...doesn't take away the fact that THEY CHEAT!!!!

If you don't mind being cheated...then bid on their stuff.

They have been cheating as long as there have been auctions, going back to when I first started getting involved in auctions. Shill bidding is the second oldest profession. It didn't take me long to distance from all auctions.

[Edwolf1963]

I like PWCC, have had good experiences but this is the stuff I have a hard time putting my mind around. I realize its hard to police all their auctions for shilling/fraud, but wouldn't something like this example (and there are several BTW) raise a number of red flags immediately? Same new/relatively low feedback bidder, running same grade card up well over VCP recent average or max, and 13 bid retractions within 6 mos! I've been on eBay for 15+ years and I've never had 1.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSwBnVW-ANt

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

I like PWCC, have had good experiences but this is the stuff I have a hard time putting my mind around. I realize its hard to police all their auctions for shilling/fraud, but wouldn't something like this example (and there are several BTW) raise a number of red flags immediately? Same new/relatively low feedback bidder, running same grade card up well over VCP recent average or max, and 13 bid retractions within 6 mos! I've been on eBay for 15+ years and I've never had 1.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSwBnVW-ANt

I also bid quite a bit with PWCC and have a lot of respect for them. This kind of stuff is lunacy. How is e-bay allowing this person to still have an account? Sure, PWCC should block them, but why isn't e-bay doing something about this. Probation? 3 month suspension? Black star next to their name?

I review most of my auctions on PWCC. 99.9% of them I am very happy with. If there is someone like this over-bidding me, then I would personally send them an e-mail. Brent's group has always been very responsive.

[itjclarke]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet... but these threads and observations, though good in intent, do give a nice blue print for anyone who wants to actively scare bidders/competition away from a listing. Just sayin.

I've bought over a dozen items from PWCC and with exception of one, do not feel I've overpaid (often backed up by subsequent sales). Their service (especially packaging and responding to my questions/requests) has been great in my experience... and though I do not think for a second there is not at least some funny business that goes on within their offerings, I do not think this is unique to PWCC, Probstein. I'm sure it happens on many other consignment type sales (especially AH's that have been outed), and/or even when the seller is the card's owner.

Not sure what the solutions are, but I've got to think it would be difficult to monitor and then make decisions in real time (blocking bidders, etc) when you've got thousands of listings. I've never sold, so don't have the most informed POV. Seems it may be good if eBay were able to police this, perhaps in the form of warnings for excessive retractions, returns, non payments, and suspending bidders when it seems appropriate.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I haven't seen it mentioned yet... but these threads and observations, though good in intent, do give a nice blue print for anyone who wants to actively scare bidders/competition away from a listing. Just sayin.

It has been happening for a long time already. A couple members have even admitted to doing it in the past.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no need to pm me...I can read. how much proof do you need, KEVIN...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat! Just because they don't cheat all the time...doesn't take away the fact that THEY CHEAT!!!!

If you don't mind being cheated...then bid on their stuff.

I've won a couple of differnet cards off of them in the few years I've been collecting.

PSA 4 Doc Crandall cap with portrait
PSA 2 Joe Tinker batting

The prices on these were pretty good. However I often see plenty of cards they have for sale that are........... let's just say the opposite of good. And they're nothing special. I'm talking common commons going for well above what a sane person would pay.

I glanced at the recent listings and it appears as though there's NOTHING (in my price range) that I would consider a good deal. And there's still plenty of time for the prices to get crazier.

[bobbyw8469]

I glanced at the recent listings and it appears as though there's NOTHING (in my price range) that I would consider a good deal. And there's still plenty of time for the prices to get crazier.

Then you are looking at the wrong cards. I know for a FACT that there is a $500 card that is currently at $98. I'm sure there are others, but I am watching one in particular.

[Snapolit1]

My experiences with PWCC have generally been fine.

Reading all these posts I was intrigued enough to investigate the bidders who have now topped me on 4 pricey items in tonight's auction, including some Goudeys and Ruths.

The four sellers have bid on PWCC with 44%, 46%, 77% and 77% of their recent bids. And they each have many hundreds of feedbacks.

Am I accusing anyone of wrongdoing? No. Do these numbers strike me as a little peculiar? Yep they do. Are a lot of other quality sellers.

[Snapolit1]

We can all speculate till the cows come home. I'm convinced that most of the shenanigans that go on are large sellers who agree among themselves that they'll list on well known web sites and then run each other's things up. You rub my back and I'll rub yours. And if you end up holding the bag when the music ends we'll make believe it never happened.

[irv]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I haven't seen it mentioned yet... but these threads and observations, though good in intent, do give a nice blue print for anyone who wants to actively scare bidders/competition away from a listing. Just sayin.

.

Interesting!

That is something I never considered happening, but it no doubt goes on, sadly.

[ullmandds]

well i did send brent a message via ebay questioning the underbidders behavior in one of his auctions...and his response was something like this:

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out. The high bidder is a highly reputable buyer
of ours. The under bidder who has placed a series of bids also has a
rather reasonable track record of buying quality sportscards, though
not with us. We don't think highly of these string bids where the bid
is consistently increased in small margins, but unfortunately this is
a behavior that members of the public seem to enjoy for one silly
reason or another (i.e. just enjoy the perceived competition and
hitting the 'bid' button repeatedly).

That said, we have searched the bidding on this item completely and
confirmed that everything is 100% legitimate and honest (albeit
somewhat eccentric).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

We can all speculate till the cows come home. I'm convinced that most of the shenanigans that go on are large sellers who agree among themselves that they'll list on well known web sites and then run each other's things up. You rub my back and I'll rub yours. And if you end up holding the bag when the music ends we'll make believe it never happened.

I think this explains some of the very high prices on the higher profile cards.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My experiences with PWCC have generally been fine.

Reading all these posts I was intrigued enough to investigate the bidders who have now topped me on 4 pricey items in tonight's auction, including some Goudeys and Ruths.

The four sellers have bid on PWCC with 44%, 46%, 77% and 77% of their recent bids. And they each have many hundreds of feedbacks.

Am I accusing anyone of wrongdoing? No. Do these numbers strike me as a little peculiar? Yep they do. Are a lot of other quality sellers.

It's hard to say how much of a factor bid % is although I completely agree that you cannot discount it. The reason I'm saying this is that on ebay these days, there are very few auctions that start from 99 cents anymore, and especially those that list quality items. PWCC is basically an event auction every month. I also consistently bid on Ruth and Gehrig cards, and to be honest, I bid on PWCC auctions every month. There is no other seller on ebay that I bid so consistently like this for, and I am sure there are others like me.

[ullmandds]

Well I got my card for $400 less than it sold for in last falls rea...I cannot complain...despite the unorthodox bidding techniques of some bidders.

[Pilot172000]

So I missed out on one and got one but afraid I might have overpaid a little. Time will tell but it really sucks to bid then watch the bid run up to a dollar over your high bid and you not be able to counter bid. I'm thinking I just need to stick to straight sales.

Edit: After doing more research, I believe that I may have gotten a really good card and a very good price.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Then you are looking at the wrong cards. I know for a FACT that there is a $500 card that is currently at $98. I'm sure there are others, but I am watching one in particular.

See my thread on the Ed Killian that ended for an asinine $76 when it was miss-labeled. That's not a ridiculous price?

[Snapolit1]

Glad the auction ended after midnight EST. Was asleep by 11 and saved myself a lot of money.

[Pilot172000]

I reached the point quickly to go ahead and delete all my watched items so I wouldn't bid any more. I still have Heritage to contend with Sunday.

[ValKehl]

Bill,
I share your concern re Heritage, especially since there is an individual whom I believe is currently employed by Heritage who appears on the list of Legendary shill bidders that was recently released by the court. I do occasionally bid in Heritage auctions when there is something that I just gotta have, but I will not leave max bids.