Why is Jackie Robinson in the HOF?

the 'stache · #1 04-17-2016, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Kevin,

Clemente is truly one of baseball's premier outfielders/players, and you need no support to justify this. However, I do feel from the late 50's thru the mid 60's he was the FIFTH best outfielder in baseball, falling somewhat short of Mays, Mantle, Aaron and Frank Robinson. His defensive excellence unfortunately gets trumped by those player's far superior power, and keep in mind they were all formidable defensive outfielders. Great story for you. When Tom Seaver was called upon for the save in the 1967 All-Star game during his rookie season, he stated one of his greatest bseeball moments ever was even before he through his first pitch. After his warmups, he stepped behind the mound to rub up the ball and looked at an outfield of Clemente in right, Mays in center and Aaron in left! How about that supporting cast for a rookie pitcher!

JoeT.

Frank Robinson was not a formidable defensive player. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He had one season with a positive dWAR, a 1.1 in 1957. His next best season, defensively, he had a dWAR of 0.0 in 1961, meaning he was at the level of a replacement level outfielder. Every other season, he had a negative dWAR. And for his career, his dWAR is -15.0

Clemente, on the other hand, has a 12.1 dWAR for his career, and I think that metric is on the conservative side.

And, while Robinson had the power advantage, if you compare their career WAR head to head, Clemente is actually the better player. Much of that has to do with how they ended their careers. While Robinson was God awful his last four season (4.3 WAR combined), Clemente was sensational (25.0 WAR).

Robinson's career WAR is 107.2. He played 2,808 games. He represents one win per 26.19 games played over his career.
Clemente's career WAR is 94.5. He played in 2,433 games. He represents one win per 25.74 games played over his career.

It's close, but Clemente's versatility edges Robinson's power.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 04-17-2016, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Frank Robinson was not a formidable defensive player. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He had one season with a positive dWAR, a 1.1 in 1957. His next best season, defensively, he had a dWAR of 0.0 in 1961, meaning he was at the level of a replacement level outfielder. Every other season, he had a negative dWAR. And for his career, his dWAR is -15.0

Clemente, on the other hand, has a 12.1 dWAR for his career, and I think that metric is on the conservative side.

And, while Robinson had the power advantage, if you compare their career WAR head to head, Clemente is actually the better player. Much of that has to do with how they ended their careers. While Robinson was God awful his last four season (4.3 WAR combined), Clemente was sensational (25.0 WAR).

Robinson's career WAR is 107.2. He played 2,808 games. He represents one win per 26.19 games played over his career.
Clemente's career WAR is 94.5. He played in 2,433 games. He represents one win per 25.74 games played over his career.

It's close, but Clemente's versatility edges Robinson's power.

Clemente's on base percentage is pretty bad for a hitter of his statute, .359. His OPS is nothing to write home about either. On base percentage is always one of the arguments that Aaron was overrated, and while his wasn't spectacular, it was 15 points higher than Clemente's.

Vintageclout · #3 04-17-2016, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Frank Robinson was not a formidable defensive player. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He had one season with a positive dWAR, a 1.1 in 1957. His next best season, defensively, he had a dWAR of 0.0 in 1961, meaning he was at the level of a replacement level outfielder. Every other season, he had a negative dWAR. And for his career, his dWAR is -15.0

Clemente, on the other hand, has a 12.1 dWAR for his career, and I think that metric is on the conservative side.

And, while Robinson had the power advantage, if you compare their career WAR head to head, Clemente is actually the better player. Much of that has to do with how they ended their careers. While Robinson was God awful his last four season (4.3 WAR combined), Clemente was sensational (25.0 WAR).

Robinson's career WAR is 107.2. He played 2,808 games. He represents one win per 26.19 games played over his career.
Clemente's career WAR is 94.5. He played in 2,433 games. He represents one win per 25.74 games played over his career.

It's close, but Clemente's versatility edges Robinson's power.

It is close but for my dollar, at PEAK VALUE, I'll take Robinson.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
2 bats a co worker brought into work	vwtdi	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	4	04-12-2016 05:05 PM
SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector	CMIZ5290	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	219	04-10-2016 03:42 PM
What the Secret Santa brought us...	brianp-beme	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	19	01-04-2016 08:22 PM
What Brought You To Collect Vintage?	bcookie	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	16	05-08-2012 05:44 PM
Another GAI update brought to you by a grant from "elronsanchez"	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	8	04-03-2002 07:35 PM