Why is Phil Rizzuto in the HOF?

[JustinD]

I have always thought putting a closer in is much like putting a kicker in the football hall of fame...silly.

However, then I think how important they are to the team, how many games are lost if they blow it, and just how much pressure they can both handle as the game often rests squarely on their shoulders. Then I understand why they are HOF worthy.

Honestly though, I doubt many folks that aren't a complete homer for that players team get too excited at the bronze busts of either while walking the halls, lol.

[slipk1068]

Best bunter ever.

[darwinbulldog]

Rirruto

[Snapolit1]

Mariano Rivera deserves HOF. No question in my mind. Guy came into myriad high pressure situations and was overwhelmingly effective. Not every save is difficult or worth of a pat on the back but this guy was money in da bank for a long time. Deserves a first ballot election.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Rirruto

Give that man a Scoobie Snack!

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Best bunter ever.

Though I never say Rizzuto bunt, I find it hard to believe anyone was better than Rod Carew and Brett Butler.
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[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Though I never say Rizzuto bunt, I find it hard to believe anyone was better than Rod Carew and Brett Butler.
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.

I never saw scooter either, but I read he could get down a bunt on a squeeze play when the pitcher threw the ball over his head. I never saw Willie Keeler either, but I read he could put a handkerchief anywhere up the 3rd or 1st base line and make the ball land on it every time. Some serious bat control

Never heard of or saw Butler do anything like that. Ichiro was the best bunter I ever saw.

[Dewey]

His Money Store commercials were THAT good.

[Yoda]

I dated "The Scooter's" daughter briefly in college. Definitely HOF material.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I dated "The Scooter's" daughter briefly in college. Definitely HOF material.

Hey John

Was this Penny Rizzuto ?


TED Z
.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I have always thought putting a closer in is much like putting a kicker in the football hall of fame...silly.

However, then I think how important they are to the team, how many games are lost if they blow it, and just how much pressure they can both handle as the game often rests squarely on their shoulders. Then I understand why they are HOF worthy.

Honestly though, I doubt many folks that aren't a complete homer for that players team get too excited at the bronze busts of either while walking the halls, lol.

Well, this Red Sox fan thinks Mariano should be in. And I'd be more than happy to see him get there.

For a long time, he essentially shortened any game he got into. I hated seeing him come into a close game.

There's a few kickers I also think should be in the FB hall. Ray Guy is to me long overdue. A good kicker makes a bigger difference to a team than most people think.

Steve B

[Laxcat]

I think they just misspelled it. You should spell it: V-E-R-N S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S

[vintagesportscollector]

My Aunt was good friends with Cora. They hung out at the beauty parlor together in the '40s/'50s. She used to bring home stuff from Yankees games for my Dad.

[tedzan]

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game

I grew up in Hillside, NJ in the 1940's and 1950's. Phil's house was 2 blocks away from us. He was a great role model for us kids in the neighborhood.

Monday nites at St. Catherine's school, Phil would get together with us and "Talk Baseball" for a couple of hours. He would give us pointers on how to
be an effective Lead-off batter and how to field our positions....answered a lot of our questions on the ballplayers of that era....and, had a great sense
of humor.

Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.

Hopefully some of you may appreciate me sharing this with you. Whatever, but I don't expect you to be convinced otherwise by this Ted's words.

Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

Now, how can you argue with that statement ?


TED Z
.

[sago]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game



Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.
Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

All stats courtesy of baseball-reference.com

If this "constant" is accurate, then Rizzuto falls way below it.

Of his 6719 career PA's, 1710 were leading off an inning. His OBP for those appearances was .335, or 20 points lower than his career average, and if I was not lazy, the math would probably be about .365 for non-leadoff
AB's.

Leading off an inning, he hit .254 for his career. Leading off a game, he hit .266. His career average was .273.

For his career, he scored 877 runs, while reaching base 2365 times, or 37% of the time.

If he scored 75% of the time he reached base when leading off an inning (not factoring in the aforementioned double plays), that means he scored 573 times. That would leave 304 runs for the remaining 5009 plate appearances, even though his BA, and OBP were higher when he did not lead off an inning.

An excellent defensive player, who could bunt. Looking at JAWS, WAR, and other innovative stats, he does not come close to deserving a plaque. Maybe in the broadcasting wing, certainly not as a player.

[dstudeba]

Great memories Ted, thanks for sharing them. Hate the Yankees, but loved listening to Rizzuto while falling asleep. I especially remember how much he loved Pags.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sago

All stats courtesy of baseball-reference.com

If this "constant" is accurate, then Rizzuto falls way below it.
..........
..........

An excellent defensive player, who could bunt. Looking at JAWS, WAR, and other innovative stats, he does not come close to deserving a plaque. Maybe in the broadcasting wing, certainly not as a player.

Hey dude

I saw him play from 1947 to 1956; and, my memory is very clear for those years. Also, I have talked with Phil on many an occasion over the years. Can you say the same ?

Your numbers don't tell a true story. For example, I don't see Walks factored into them.

During the Yankees "dynasty" (1941 - 1953), Rizzuto was a key player in the Yankees seven World Championships (plus one AL Championship in 1942). Rizzuto's On Base %
during these 10 years was approx. .355

He scored 805 Runs during this 10-year period. That's a pretty good number for a "non-power" Lead-off hitter.


Anyhow, a better man than you or I said it the best....I will reiterate......

Originally Posted by tedzan

In a conversation with Ted Williams in the 1980's in Cooperstown, Ted told me...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all those years,
we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

TED Z
.

[SteveMitchell]

I like the Two Teds' response better than mine but I'll share it anyway:

Some believe the National Baseball Hall of Fame ought to include more than the first 25 or so players. If nearly 20,000 played big league baseball (and a few thousand others were barred but were of MLB quality), then a reasonable HOF membership might be 3-5 percent, perhaps less. If 2% is right, then there ought to be 350-400 players enshrined. (I didn't count them but, exclusive of officials, umps, etc., there are a whole lot less than 350 players as members.) Therefore, Phil Rizzuto belongs - he just got there a little before he "should" have, according to some folks. Like I said, I like Ted Z's and Ted W's answer better. (See below if you missed it.)

Originally Posted by tedzan

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game

I grew up in Hillside, NJ in the 1940's and 1950's. Phil's house was 2 blocks away from us. He was a great role model for us kids in the neighborhood.

Monday nites at St. Catherine's school, Phil would get together with us and "Talk Baseball" for a couple of hours. He would give us pointers on how to
be an effective Lead-off batter and how to field our positions....answered a lot of our questions on the ballplayers of that era....and, had a great sense
of humor.

Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.

Hopefully some of you may appreciate me sharing this with you. Whatever, but I don't expect you to be convinced otherwise by this Ted's words.

Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

Now, how can you argue with that statement ?


TED Z
.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by steve B;1529066[B

[/B]

There's a few kickers I also think should be in the FB hall. Ray Guy is to me long overdue. A good kicker makes a bigger difference to a team than most people think.

Steve B

Steve ,
Ray Guy was inducted into the FB Hall of Fame in 2014. And I agree he did deserve it .

[vintagesportscollector]

Ted Z, thanks for sharing that. I believe Phil lived in Hillside to the day he died, which says a lot about who he was. My family lived on Chancellor Ave. in Irvington. Hillside and Irvington aren't what they once were in the 40s/50s.