Another T206 Wagner "? AUTHTCT"

[JTysver]

Actually, that is mail fraud and a Federal Offense.
The seller ought to be turned in to the Postal Inspector. I would think they would be more than interested in this especially since the dude is using the US Mail to sell fraudulent materials.
How is it Fraud? He stated it just came back from PSA. That is a lie.

[Pilot172000]

Which part is mail fraud? How do you know it didn't come back from PSA? In most cases its not against the law to lie. Is he or she selling something he presumes to be Authentic? You have to show intent. Its also under $100 which leads me to believe that the FBI is gonna pass since it would be at best a misdemeanor. This guy should be outed and shamed back into the dark hole that came from. This board does a great job of outing crap like this.

[Leon]

All of this, really? It's not against the law to lie (commit fraud)?

I believe PSA should use better wording on their flips for counterfeit cards. Maybe something like "counterfeit". There is no question mark needed. If they can't tell it's counterfeit then they shouldn't be charging for their services. Or they should send it back at no cost and say they don't know what they are doing and have no clue but leave their flip out of the equation. I would imagine countless people have gotten screwed by their "?"..
I have always disliked their ambiguous wording on fake card flips. That being said, they are a great marketing company. They do a good job in grading, overall, too...imo.

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

Which part is mail fraud? How do you know it didn't come back from PSA? In most cases its not against the law to lie. Is he or she selling something he presumes to be Authentic? You have to show intent. Its also under $100 which leads me to believe that the FBI is gonna pass since it would be at best a misdemeanor. This guy should be outed and shamed back into the dark hole that came from. This board does a great job of outing crap like this.

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by Leon

All of this, really? It's not against the law to lie (commit fraud)?

I believe PSA should use better wording on their flips for counterfeit cards. Maybe something like "counterfeit". There is no question mark needed. If they can't tell it's counterfeit then they shouldn't be charging for their services. Or they should send it back at no cost and say they don't know what they are doing and have no clue but leave their flip out of the equation. I would imagine countless people have gotten screwed by their "?"..
I have always disliked their ambiguous wording on fake card flips. That being said, they are a great marketing company. They do a good job in grading, overall, too...imo.

You completely took what I said out of context. I didn't say "It's not against the law to lie" "I said in Most cases its not against the law to lie" BIG DARN DIFFERENCE. You can lie to your wife, you can lie to pretty much anyone as long as its not to a Federal agent, to misrepresent for profit (Fraud), or to cover for a criminal act. I have looked this listing over a dozen times and he didn't lie about anything. Vague? Absolutely, but no lying.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I believe PSA should use better wording on their flips for counterfeit cards. Maybe something like "counterfeit". There is no question mark needed. If they can't tell it's counterfeit then they shouldn't be charging for their services. Or they should send it back at no cost and say they don't know what they are doing and have no clue but leave their flip out of the equation.

You and I share the same opinion, Leon, so welcome to the cesspool.

And, if M. Browne wants to continue to participate in this thread, he really needs to have his full name in his post, but for now I'll assume the 'M' stands for Meathead.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You and I share the same opinion, Leon, so welcome to the cesspool.

And, if M. Browne wants to continue to participate in this thread, he really needs to have his full name in his post, but for now I'll assume the 'M' stands for Meathead.

yes...this is the whole point here...PSA could be doing a better job with their verbiage to avoid deception...that's all.

The fact that they hide behind legal mumbo jumbo certainly doesn't make me like them any more.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

The fact that they hide behind legal mumbo jumbo certainly doesn't make me like them any more.

so youre saying youre not a fan of just about any and every publicly traded company ever and the same goes for just about any document that someone else has handed you to sign. got it.

heres a psa: psa should be the least of your worries. and dont get on that rollercoaster! and dont you dare look at the back of a (insert favorite mlb team here) ticket!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

so youre saying youre not a fan of just about any and every publicly traded company ever and the same goes for just about any document that someone else has handed you to sign. got it.

No...but I will say I am not a fan of legal, double speak mumbo jumbo written with the intent to deceive and confuse.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

so youre saying youre not a fan of just about any and every publicly traded company ever and the same goes for just about any document that someone else has handed you to sign. got it.

heres a psa: psa should be the least of your worries. and dont get on that rollercoaster!

And I'm not sure why you're even here...do you collect pre WW II cards???

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by JTysver

Actually, that is mail fraud and a Federal Offense.
The seller ought to be turned in to the Postal Inspector. I would think they would be more than interested in this especially since the dude is using the US Mail to sell fraudulent materials.
How is it Fraud? He stated it just came back from PSA. That is a lie.

It did just come back from PSA. Read Post #12. While I think it's morally wrong, it's not legally wrong. Ebay won't do anything about it because, technically, he's selling it for what it is as described on the flip - a Broad Leaf Wagner with Questionable Authenticity.

It's a very unfortunate situation.

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It did just come back from PSA. Read Post #12. While I think it's morally wrong, it's not legally wrong. Ebay won't do anything about it because, technically, he's selling it for what it is as described on the flip - a Broad Leaf Wagner with Questionable Authenticity.

It's a very unfortunate situation.

You are absolutely right and I remember hitting the brakes and looking at it while going through Ebay. Its shows it as ended and around $80+, did somebody bite on it or did they pull it?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

Its shows it as ended and around $80+, did somebody bite on it or did they pull it?

No, they didn't pull it. He ran it as a 5 day auction and it ran it's course.

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No, they didn't pull it. He ran it as a 5 day auction and it ran it's course.

David I agree with you that its a crap sale. Before I joined this board and learned more about the backs and front combos (thanks Sean and Ted) I would have considered crap like that.