PWCC Juggernaught

[Mdmtx]

To further my post above, if you truly want to make certain there are absolutely no improprieties then cost is involved. Additional staff and procedures. These would drive the cost up and result in higher fees and likely less material offered to sell due to the decreased net return. We can't have our cake and eat it too. If you want a stream lined organization that has a low cost structure and gets material out of the woodwork then you will have the risk of being shilled. If you want to remove all risk then cost could increase due to less available items on the market.

I am in no way condoning shilling nor am I condemning it. It is a fact of life. The best way is to set a price you are willing to pay for an item and don't breach that threshold. Period.

If you compare other industries that have setup regulations to avoid graft, it is almost always at a cost. I don't believe this is a problem we can ever solve globally due to personal greed. I am a firm believer the only thing you can do is to manage your own affairs and have the personal wherewithal to stay within your limits.

Mark Medlin

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

... The best way is to set a price you are willing to pay for an item and don't breach that threshold. Period. ...

I always audibly sigh when I read this statement on Net54. And I have been sighing a lot in the last year or two.

That price you are willing to pay entered your mind after years of price manipulation caused by shilling. Even if by some miracle you have never been shilled directly, those artificially inflated historical prices have caused every card you have ever bought to be more expensive than it should have been.

Of course, I have no idea what to do about any of it.

[ZernialFan]

Leon.............You pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. I've always been a collector and have bought but never sold on my account on ebay. I have sold through others on ebay, NET54, CU, & B&L to change the collection or downsize. But sometimes as you get older things change and you also wonder if your family will dump the collection for .10 on the dollar. So you down size and keep some of it with instructions, but not so much as to over whelm the family.

Regards to all,
Charlie

[Mdmtx]

Daryl,

I fully understand your point and can appreciate that view. However, since long before any of us in this forum were even a glimmer in our parents eyes, sellers have been manipulating buyers to create additional margin or to mitigate losses. I stand by my statement that if you never pay more than you desire to spend, your disappointment level should be minimal even if the values crash.

If you just think about the sports card market only, without buyer manipulation mantle rookies may still be trading at 900 bucks. Although that is a neat idea, how many people would be scrambling to put first rate material on the market with little to no return.

And I used buyer manipulation on purpose. Shilling is not the only method to create false value. Sales pressure, collusion, hype, misleading statements, inventory control and many more, all contribute to price increases. But when items begin trading at the new levels it is no longer false value. The first buyer is the dupe and he (she) sets the bar. The others are now paying market price.

P.S. I'm not an Econ professor Or play one on tv, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

[Billy5858]

I'm a bit of a rookie here..........my one cent.

PWCC and Probstein seem like the only two sellers on Ebay
that sell high-graded hard to find stuff. Otherwise it's only found
on BINs for crazy A$$ prices. Most are not priced to sell.

I've bought from PWCC several times and was happy with what I got.
But maybe it's because I don't mind paying a little premium on what I'm
looking for. And it's monthly event. Don't have to wait for the twice yearly AH events with their 20% buyer's premium.
I'm not looking to get a great deal or to flip cards. I always look forward to PWCC Auctions and seeing Brent's logo along side a card.
Probstein too.........
Also I dig their hard shelled delivery envelopes. Always thought bubble wrapped cards were not safe enough.
With my last shipment my 3 cards were put in two bubble wrapped envelopes inside of a hard shelled envelope.

Perfect!!

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

To further my post above, if you truly want to make certain there are absolutely no improprieties then cost is involved. Additional staff and procedures. These would drive the cost up and result in higher fees and likely less material offered to sell due to the decreased net return. We can't have our cake and eat it too. If you want a stream lined organization that has a low cost structure and gets material out of the woodwork then you will have the risk of being shilled. If you want to remove all risk then cost could increase due to less available items on the market.

I am in no way condoning shilling nor am I condemning it. It is a fact of life. The best way is to set a price you are willing to pay for an item and don't breach that threshold. Period.

If you compare other industries that have setup regulations to avoid graft, it is almost always at a cost. I don't believe this is a problem we can ever solve globally due to personal greed. I am a firm believer the only thing you can do is to manage your own affairs and have the personal wherewithal to stay within your limits.

Mark Medlin

++ The shilling complaints are getting tiresome. My guess is shilling is rampant on e-bay, and 2x that at AH. Your going to live a long stressful life if you continue to think you were shilled on a winning bid. Update; you were.

For your own mental health, put a snipe in at what you feel is a fair amount, then walk away. Stay away from AH's, especially ones that have multiple endings to their auctions, and certainly the ones that actually TELL you in the fine print you will be shilled. Don't come complaining on this board, just look in the mirror.

And if your using retirement money or your mortgage payment to buy cards, then no-one on this board can help you.

[Yoda]

If nothing else, PWCC will rise or fall based on a continuing or increasing flow of quality consignments and the realized satisfaction of sellers. PWCC's attractions have been well spelled out for buyers and sellers alike, but I think it is safe to say they have emerged as a viable alternative to the AH's in a relatively short time.