nearly untouchable records...which will be the first to fall?

[scooter729]

In his opening press conference when he was hired as Red Sox manager about 15 years ago, Jimy Williams used that quote about a frog's booty (or some version thereof). The Boston media already thought Jimy was strange, but once he threw that out there, it was the beginning of the end for Jimy in Boston!

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by scooter729

In his opening press conference when he was hired as Red Sox manager about 15 years ago, Jimy Williams used that quote about a frog's booty (or some version thereof). The Boston media already thought Jimy was strange, but once he threw that out there, it was the beginning of the end for Jimy in Boston!

Well, I'm stayin'!



.

[Touch'EmAll]

Over the years I have occasionally argued Ryan one of the greatest pitchers ever and have had quite a few people disagree. He has 1/3 of all the unbreakable pitching records mentioned in this threads initial post. Don't forget he still has Guiness Book Records - fastest pitch ever - ever in the entire history of baseball. My dad took me to that particular game he was clocked. They measured him at 10 feet from home plate - now they measure from 10 feet from the mound. The ball slows down an average of 8 mph from release to home plate.

added: Another record unbreakable - Ryan's career hits allowed per 9 inning game is lowest of any pitcher that ever played - nobody is going to break that record.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Over the years I have occasionally argued Ryan one of the greatest pitchers ever and have had quite a few people disagree. He has 1/3 of all the unbreakable pitching records mentioned in this threads initial post. Don't forget he still has Guiness Book Records - fastest pitch ever - ever in the entire history of baseball. My dad took me to that particular game he was clocked. They measured him at 10 feet from home plate - now they measure from 10 feet from the mound. The ball slows down an average of 8 mph from release to home plate.

added: Another record unbreakable - Ryan's career hits allowed per 9 inning game is lowest of any pitcher that ever played - nobody is going to break that record.

Bill James ranks him in the 20s. I would agree with that assessment, records notwithstanding. Look at the walks. Look at the JAWS metric which ranks him 31st.

[packs]

I think Ryan will always be viewed as a thrower and not a pitcher. Numbers aside, you can't tell me he was a better pitcher than Greg Maddux.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I think Ryan will always be viewed as a thrower and not a pitcher. Numbers aside, you can't tell me he was a better pitcher than Greg Maddux.

The yardstick I like is Seaver, whose RC the prior year despite being a high number sells for much much less. Ryan couldn't hold a candle to Seaver as a pitcher IMO.

[Touch'EmAll]

A ground ball out or fly out sometimes only takes one pitch. A strikeout takes 3 very good pitches - so good that major leaguers try with all their abilities to hit it, and can't. There are no records for most fly outs pitched.

There are always exceptions to the rules of greatness. Sometimes we get too stuck on black and white numbers. I grew up half hour from Anaheim Stadium and was lucky to attend many games (thanks mom & dad) and saw many great players, both pitchers and position players. Nobody ever drew the crowds awe like the Ryan Express. The feeling in the air and the banter of the crowd the night he pitched was different, unique, electric, almost bone chilling. It was very special and most everyone knew deep down inside that they will never see any other player like this ever again - a player that comes along once in a lifetime.

A couple players I saw come sort of close to this mold - where everyone is on pins and needles when they strut their stuff - nobody wants to miss out standing in the concession line - watch the dude - get food later: Reggie Jackson and Bo Jackson.

Yes, you can make good argument for other players better I suppose. But who would you rather spend your hard earned money taking the family out to see - Jim Palmer, Greg Maddux, etc - or Nolan Ryan?

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The yardstick I like is Seaver, whose RC the prior year despite being a high number sells for much much less. Ryan couldn't hold a candle to Seaver as a pitcher IMO.

Hey peter n i finally agree on something. Ryan wasnt even the best pitcher of his generation...much less one of the best ever. We need championship belts for best pitcher going by decades.