Partially ripping a card opening the mail

[Jewish-collector]

If I sold a card that expensive, I'd send it registered mail. Because sometimes you gotta say "WTF".

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

If I sold a card that expensive, I'd send it registered mail. Because sometimes you gotta say "WTF".

You would first need to own one to sell one. I tend to overnight and cross my fingers on higher dollar items. I have done registered on very expensive (5 figure) items. I would ask for at least a partial refund as I believe it was mostly the sellers fault this happened. No excuse for shipping that way. When I won 8.8k (8 qty) of E94 overprints, many years ago, all of them were stuffed into one 3 x 4 toploader. I guess it saved on weight or something. I thought it was crazy but none were hurt. Live and learn.

[bnorth]

It really saddens me to see how many people think the guy that ripped the card should get a refund.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It really saddens me to see how many people think the guy that ripped the card should get a refund.

Are you serious? If so, are you the seller?

What if a card is shipped raw next to an open cup of coffee inside a big box. Is it the buyer's fault if the cup tips over?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Are you serious? If so, are you the seller?

What if a card is shipped raw next to an open cup of coffee inside a big box. Is it the buyer's fault if the cup tips over?

Yes I am serious and no I am not the seller.

Plain and simple the card arrived as described then the OP ripped the card. How can this in any way be the sellers fault?

I have bought several 100 cards off this forum. I have gotten several of these in a PWE. Yes nothing but a raw card in a PWE. This really bothered me at first but then after reading a few threads on shipping I realized as long as it arrives without damage that is what really matters.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Yes I am serious and no I am not the seller.



Plain and simple the card arrived as described then the OP ripped the card. How can this in any way be the sellers fault?



I have bought several 100 cards off this forum. I have gotten several of these in a PWE. Yes nothing but a raw card in a PWE. This really bothered me at first but then after reading a few threads on shipping I realized as long as it arrives without damage that is what really matters.

I'll just repeat what I said earlier:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

There is absolutely no way on earth that card didn't suffer any damage in transit, even before Pete finished the job.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I'll just repeat what I said earlier:

If it was damaged in transit that is completely different. Now please show me the post that the OP said it was damaged in transit and not by him.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Yes I am serious and no I am not the seller.

Plain and simple the card arrived as described then the OP ripped the card. How can this in any way be the sellers fault?

I have bought several 100 cards off this forum. I have gotten several of these in a PWE. Yes nothing but a raw card in a PWE. This really bothered me at first but then after reading a few threads on shipping I realized as long as it arrives without damage that is what really matters.

I could not disagree more. Shipping a raw card with no protection in a plain white envelope is not acceptable in my opinion. It is a seller's responsibility to package a card so it arrives safely. If a card is able to be torn in half simply by opening the envelope it was obviously not protected properly. If I received a card purchased from this site, or elsewhere packaged in this manner I would post pictures and the seller's ID and name to warn other members.

[irv]

Imo, this is a 50/50 or a "no fault" situation as both parties are wrong to assume it's the other guy's fault.

Seller should have shipped the card, (especially an expensive one!) much better and the buyer should have been more careful opening the envelope, especially knowing an expensive card was inside. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth?

[markf31]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I could not disagree more. Shipping a raw card with no protection in a plain white envelope is not acceptable in my opinion. It is a seller's responsibility to package a card so it arrives safely. If a card is able to be torn in half simply by opening the envelope it was obviously not protected properly. If I received a card purchased from this site, or elsewhere packaged in this manner I would post pictures and the seller's ID and name to warn other members.

The item arrived safely into the hands of the buyer, did it not? The OP did not state there was any further or additional damage to the card as a result of the packaging other than the ripping that was a direct result of the physical action of the buyer. In my mind, the case ends there.

The OP has not posted any pictures showing the rip of the card, or the rip of the envelope which I think are important pieces of evidence in this situation. We have no knowledge of the degree of negligence that the OP had in the "ripping" of the envelope.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It really saddens me to see how many people think the guy that ripped the card should get a refund.

This is 100% on the seller. It doesn't matter if it ripped in Pete's hands. If you purchase something of value you have to be able to assume that if you open it in a reasonable manner you won't damage it. Ripping an envelope is a reasonable way to open an envelope. As a matter of fact, unless new envelopes are also transformers, it is the only way. If the card is in a toploader or cs1 it's fine, if it's between cardboard it would have been fine. Pete ripped an envelope, because envelopes have three purposes:

1) Put something in envelope.
2) Close envelope.
3) Open envelope.

They way I have been taught the steps is:

1) Insert item or document with hands.
2) Sealed with adhesive (primarily with hands.)
3) Opened with hands or sharp object.

I'm sorry it saddens you that this is the only way I've been taught to interact with envelopes.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

This is 100% on the seller. It doesn't matter if it ripped in Pete's hands. If you purchase something of value you have to be able to assume that if you open it in a reasonable manner you won't damage it. Ripping an envelope is a reasonable way to open an envelope. As a matter of fact, unless new envelopes are also transformers, it is the only way. If the card is in a toploader or cs1 it's fine, if it's between cardboard it would have been fine. Pete ripped an envelope, because envelopes have three purposes:

1) Put something in envelope.
2) Close envelope.
3) Open envelope.

They way I have been taught the steps is:

1) Insert item or document with hands.
2) Sealed with adhesive (primarily with hands.)
3) Opened with hands or sharp object.

I'm sorry it saddens you that this is the only way I've been taught to interact with envelopes.

I usually have some inkling that there might be a card within regardless of the packaging.

So if the card was packed in a block of ice, I might choose to let the ice melt, rather than use an ice pick or sledge hammer.

If the card was distributed in boxes of cereal, I might choose to pour the cereal out of box until I could see and easily remove the card, rather than dive into the box with my grimy paw to search and destroy.

Or if the card was contained in one of those molded hard plastic packages that are difficult to open by any technique, I might choose not to open it at all.

And if I received 100 envelopes that day and knew there was a card in only one, I would look at the return addresses to determine which envelopes could safely opened by the "grip it and rip it" methodology, if that was the only way I had been taught to interact with an envelope.

[ALR-bishop]

Everyone seems to agree the method of shipping was completely unreasonable. Most, but not all, think the seller is responsible for the damage that occurred after the item arrived. The question I raised earlier is assuming the seller tells ebay the item arrived undamaged but that it was damaged in opening the package because the method of packing was unreasonable, what is ebay likely to do in that situation ? I guess we will find out.

I have personally come closer to damaging cards I received because they were entombed in tape and bubble wrap to protect them Patience in opening is a true virtue.

I have to say Frank, I have not yet experienced the block of ice shipping method

[steve B]

It can be debated whose fault it is.

What I can say is that had it been insured the USPS wouldn't pay out because it was packed poorly. I've seen this firsthand with a damaged phonograph that wasn't packed with enough packing material. Oddly the USPS people themselves recommended adding packing material to the package before bringing it in for inspection. "Make sure there's enough packing material in the box or we won't cover it" They did cover repairs done by someone in the business based on a quote. The reduced amount probably made it easier.

Funny story.
A friend used to sell needles for the old Victrolas. One day he gets home to find a message on the machine from the FBI. One of the buyers forgot he'd bought them and called the police about the "suspicious package" he'd just received. What was pretty cool was that by the time he'd come home the package had been "neutralized " and the agents were only wondering if they were correct in thinking the contents were Victrola needles. A quick explanation and the number of the Ebay listing cleared it all up. The guy left positive feedback and never asked for replacements for the ones that got blown up.


Steve B