Your top 3 non HOFers

[nat]

Reasons are more interesting than just names. Let's hear the arguments for these guys.

I'm going to exclude Bagwell and Raines, because I think it's very very likely that they get in in the next year (Raines) or two (Bagwell). Schilling and a couple other guys currently on the ballot get omitted for similar reasons.

Don't hold me to these picks as the very best, but here are a few:

Lou Whittaker. Lou's trouble is that he did everything well and nothing outstanding. He had good power (20 HR range in the 1980s), was a good fielder (+15 dWAR, although some of that he gets just for playing second base, but he also won a few gold gloves), he walked more than he struck out. He was an above-average batter all but one year of his career, even playing a defense-first position. 75 wins above replacement (basically, if you replaced him with a AAA guy you'd expect to win 75 fewer games over the course of his career) and 42 wins above average, both well above what it usually takes to get into the hall of fame.

Kevin Brown. I know that this one will be unpopular, but Brown really was a great player, it's just that no one was paying attention. From 1992 to 2001 (the heart of his career) he had a 3.00 ERA over 2166 innings. From 1996 to 1998, his best seasons, he had a 2.33 ERA over 717 innings. Good for a 172 ERA+ (Basically just ERA once you control for the parks where he played, and compared to average; higher is better.) By comparison from 1964 to 1966 Koufax had a 176 ERA+ in 881 innings. So his peak was not quite as good as Koufax's, that's nothing to be ashamed of. 68 WAR/ 40 WAA for him.

Got to run, I'll come up with a third later.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I assume steroid suspicion has kept Bagwell out, no? Otherwise he seems pretty obvious.

My reasoning on Hodges Oliva and Garvey is that they were each pretty dominant players for a decade or close to it, although they didn't quite put together the big career numbers. I guess Mattingly fits that bill too.

[Bill77]

If I had to name just 3 players I would go with:

Al Oliver .303 BA, 2743 Hits in 18 seasons
Buddy Bell .279 BA, 2514 Hits in 18 seasons
Del Ennis .284 BA, 2063 Hits in 14 seasons

Others would include:
Lou Whitaker
Mark Grace
Rusty Staub


I just think it's amazing how many players have good/great stats that seem to be overlooked just because they don't play on great teams or are overshadowed by bigger stars of the era.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Bill77

If I had to name just 3 players I would go with:

Al Oliver .303 BA, 2743 Hits in 18 seasons
Buddy Bell .279 BA, 2514 Hits in 18 seasons
Del Ennis .284 BA, 2063 Hits in 14 seasons

Others would include:
Lou Whitaker
Mark Grace
Rusty Staub


I just think it's amazing how many players have good/great stats that seem to be overlooked just because they don't play on great teams or are overshadowed by bigger stars of the era.

There are a lot of reason why, and a lot of reasons that don't make any sense and just make one shake their head in disbelieve!
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...again-20141208

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article...-a-lot-of-work

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ml...thomas-raines/

[71buc]

I agree with Raines and have always possessed a bias for Scoop. Is there anyone who owns 4 batting titles other than Madlock not in the hall?

[egri]

If you're asking about who I think the best players are who aren't in and don't belong, I'd say Pete Runnels, Fred Lynn and Jackie Jensen. The best who aren't in and who do belong IMPO are Gil Hodges, Dom DiMaggio and Billy Pierce.

[Steve D]

My top two are Steve Garvey and Dale Murphy.

There are several others who I feel should be in the HOF (and are past their BBWAA eligibility), but are too close to break down at #3, including Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Luis Tiant, Ted Simmons, Thurman Munson, Keith Hernandez, Fred McGriff, Minnie Minoso, Gil Hodges.....

Steve

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by nat

Reasons are more interesting than just names. Let's hear the arguments for these guys.

I'm going to exclude Bagwell and Raines, because I think it's very very likely that they get in in the next year (Raines) or two (Bagwell). Schilling and a couple other guys currently on the ballot get omitted for similar reasons.

Don't hold me to these picks as the very best, but here are a few:

Lou Whittaker. Lou's trouble is that he did everything well and nothing outstanding. He had good power (20 HR range in the 1980s), was a good fielder (+15 dWAR, although some of that he gets just for playing second base, but he also won a few gold gloves), he walked more than he struck out. He was an above-average batter all but one year of his career, even playing a defense-first position. 75 wins above replacement (basically, if you replaced him with a AAA guy you'd expect to win 75 fewer games over the course of his career) and 42 wins above average, both well above what it usually takes to get into the hall of fame.

Kevin Brown. I know that this one will be unpopular, but Brown really was a great player, it's just that no one was paying attention. From 1992 to 2001 (the heart of his career) he had a 3.00 ERA over 2166 innings. From 1996 to 1998, his best seasons, he had a 2.33 ERA over 717 innings. Good for a 172 ERA+ (Basically just ERA once you control for the parks where he played, and compared to average; higher is better.) By comparison from 1964 to 1966 Koufax had a 176 ERA+ in 881 innings. So his peak was not quite as good as Koufax's, that's nothing to be ashamed of. 68 WAR/ 40 WAA for him.

Got to run, I'll come up with a third later.

Kevin Brown was listed in the Mitchel Report.

[bn2cardz]

Since this isn't about the best stats not in the HOF here are players that stand out in my memory and make me pause when I run across their cards:

David Eckstein - The only jersey in our house with a name on it. It was my wife's jersey, he was the MVP in 2006 WS. The 2006 Playoffs and WS was the start of our relationship. I had extra tickets to a playoff game and put out the offer to my Bible Study group and she was willing to go. Then she was willing to pay her half to go to the World Series with me. We just hung out as friends at that time, but then never stopped hanging out.


JD Drew - My older sister loved looking for his cards, and I would seek out what I could to help her out. This 'crush' helped my sister and I bond over baseball cards.


Mark Grace - Very much a different person than the other two listed. A Cub and had many vices. I always thought he was a great player as a child so when the Cubs came to St. Louis I went to the visiting side during batting practice and asked for his auto. He obliged and was very polite even though I was wearing Cardinals clothes. When I turned to leave (because I got the player I wanted) some Cubs fans stopped me and told me they couldn't believe Grace had done that because they follow the team around and can never get him to sign and have never seen him sign during batting practice. That stood out to me and made me a real fan of his even if he played on the Cubs and I was in St. Louis.