1954 Topps Ernie Banks PSA 8 PWCC

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

generally the banks rookie card 1954 really shows well compared to other 54s because the color of the card is close to the border color....the only bad attributes on that card is top to bottom centering.....most 54 banks when you are getting to the psa 6 level in better have really good eye appeal

I agree on the eye appeal but the centering is so hard to tell and almost always off top to bottom as you mention. This one has a nice top border, but it could be a tad bit bigger..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Right the centering doesnt show on a Banks like it does a 51 mantle....theres a lot more leeway on centering on the 54 banks...thats why i think you can say you have a graded 7.5 and comparing prices with a grade 8 versus other cards in other sets where the border is really easy to seee

[bobbyw8469]

Leon is right. Cards rule. I have had cards grade '1' sell for more than their PSA 3 counterparts. Check out my 1956 Mantle and 1953 Bowman Color Pee Wee Reese to see some BEAUTIFUL 1's that outsold their higher graded counterparts. I understand your thinking that a card attained a certain grade, and therefore should sell for a certain price, but the bottom line is - the card rules. I think more and more people are swaying around to that line of thinking.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Leon is right. Cards rule. I have had cards grade '1' sell for more than their PSA 3 counterparts. Check out my 1956 Mantle and 1953 Bowman Color Pee Wee Reese to see some BEAUTIFUL 1's that outsold their higher graded counterparts. I understand your thinking that a card attained a certain grade, and therefore should sell for a certain price, but the bottom line is - the card rules. I think more and more people are swaying around to that line of thinking.

for those cards thats like a difference of 100 bucks or whatever...i like to see an auction were a psa 5 RC mantle goes for less than a PSA 4 RC mantle in the very same auction..when its about 1000s and 1000s people sell the holder not the card...even if there is one example that can be pointed too..the fact that 99% of the auctions you wont be able to point too show you that grades rule not cards...

[bobbyw8469]

Ahh..my friend...you must not be a VCP member. A little research goes a long way to see I am telling the truth.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-M...247?rmvSB=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-M...372?rmvSB=true

That is a '1' vs a PSA '3.5' by the almighty PWCC nonetheless! I think that is a clear example that people are looking at the cards and not the flips. The times are changing. Adapt or get crushed.

Research yourself...I am too busy. I had a Reggie Jackson rookie PSA 6 that sold for more than its PSA 7 counterpart in the SAME AUCTION (with PWCC). The same statement can be said for a Bob Gibson rookie I had with PWCC. You HAVE to account for centering and overall eye appeal of the card.

[glynparson]

The question I have is who are the selling for more to collectors or card doctors?

If collectors than yes it is solely the eye appeal making the difference if it is card doctors its because they think they can work it to an 8 or 9.

That said cards do matter more especially in lower grades than the holders do.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

The question I have is who are the selling for more to collectors or card doctors?

If collectors than yes it is solely the eye appeal making the difference if it is card doctors its because they think they can work it to an 8 or 9.

That said cards do matter more especially in lower grades than the holders do.

From what I am hearing and seeing, quite a number of recent high dollar purchases have been by people one would think of as card doctors.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ahh..my friend...you must not be a VCP member. A little research goes a long way to see I am telling the truth.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-M...247?rmvSB=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-M...372?rmvSB=true

That is a '1' vs a PSA '3.5' by the almighty PWCC nonetheless! I think that is a clear example that people are looking at the cards and not the flips. The times are changing. Adapt or get crushed.

Research yourself...I am too busy. I had a Reggie Jackson rookie PSA 6 that sold for more than its PSA 7 counterpart in the SAME AUCTION (with PWCC). The same statement can be said for a Bob Gibson rookie I had with PWCC. You HAVE to account for centering and overall eye appeal of the card.

right the lower grades when its not about 1000s of dollars there iss more of a chance but for every 1 example you show i can show 10000 examples of a horribly looking 8 going for more than a 7....people sell the holder not the card. As for research, the last time someone asked me for that is when i stated that PSA is much more prevalent then SGC all around and as far as value. I think its obvious now as well as my statement here than 99% of the time the grade rules. Id like to see a PSA 8 common 1974 topps card ever sell for more than a psa 9 in the same auction. Many posters have said they cant even tell the difference between 9s and 10s yet 10s sell for more for example...if cant tell the difference they should sell for the same.

[Leon]

I disagree with quite a bit of what you say on this one. Go do a search on '52 Mantles, '51 Mantles and any other higher end HOF rookie. Almost every single sale will be based on the way the card looks AS WELL AS the grade on the paper. At least that is what I am seeing spending countless hours watching.
I personally pay more for better cards in lower grades than what the flip says on higher grade but lesser quality cards. So do almost all of the buyers I see on ebay. Some are buying holders....but those cards are going for less than the really nice cards in the same holders. People like yourself say "hey it's an 8"....then you go to sell and can't figure out why your card doesn't bring what a nicer 7 does. I think it's because some people (investors and less knowledgeable collectors) buy holders and most experienced collectors buy cards.....Go figure....


And when you say if an 8 looks the same as a 10 they should sell for the same, that is the crux of this whole debate. Investors, registry collectors and other less caring hobbyists buy the flip. Others buy the cards. And yes there are a lot of flip collectors, no doubt about it.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right the lower grades when its not about 1000s of dollars there iss more of a chance but for every 1 example you show i can show 10000 examples of a horribly looking 8 going for more than a 7....people sell the holder not the card. As for research, the last time someone asked me for that is when i stated that PSA is much more prevalent then SGC all around and as far as value. I think its obvious now as well as my statement here than 99% of the time the grade rules. Id like to see a PSA 8 common 1974 topps card ever sell for more than a psa 9 in the same auction. Many posters have said they cant even tell the difference between 9s and 10s yet 10s sell for more for example...if cant tell the difference they should sell for the same.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Leon is right. Cards rule. I have had cards grade '1' sell for more than their PSA 3 counterparts. Check out my 1956 Mantle and 1953 Bowman Color Pee Wee Reese to see some BEAUTIFUL 1's that outsold their higher graded counterparts. I understand your thinking that a card attained a certain grade, and therefore should sell for a certain price, but the bottom line is - the card rules. I think more and more people are swaying around to that line of thinking.

If a dealer that relied purely on the flip for pricing were selling these cards, I would buy these at "PSA 1 prices" in a heartbeat.